为什么我们中国人和外国人打架喜欢买外国人的产品，但是实际上还是我们中国制造的。
点击联系发帖人
时间：2014-11-23 20:13
中国制造看分什么_驹之焰吧_百度贴吧
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&签到排名：今日本吧第个签到，本吧因你更精彩，明天继续来努力！
本吧签到人数：0成为超级会员，使用一键签到本月漏签0次！成为超级会员，赠送8张补签卡连续签到：天&&累计签到：天超级会员单次开通12个月以上，赠送连续签到卡3张
关注：299贴子：
中国制造看分什么收藏
虽然在欧美国家，依旧和垃圾划着等号但是对外和对内，那完全是2个不一样的档次和质量，中国制造的出口商品也许达不到西方世界的质量认证，但是完爆内地市场的中国制造是完全没有任何疑问的我以前在电视机厂干过，熊猫电视机厂，出口到的21寸在质量上基本能把在国内销售的当时29寸高清爆出翔来，因为我们流水线经常出现组装成型的电视经常因为滑轮的问题而导致掉落在地上，出口到伊拉克的电视基本完好无损，而在国内销售的29寸高清只要掉到地上那就是一声巨响，接着就是冒烟，然后由我这个负责组装显象管的贴上报废标签还记得蒙牛那副红遍网络的截图吗？？销售到香港的蒙牛和大陆的蒙牛，安全性上人家自己率先承认是2个档次你应该知道是个什么东西了吧，中国人打根儿上是不拿自己人当人的，这不是大TC的问题，自古就这揍性，活在这样一个到处坑爹的国家，谈幸福就太奢侈了，你连基本的安全感都得不到保证！！
1楼 14:48&|
中国人本质上的唯利主义，使得中国人几乎普遍的根本心态就是急功近利甚至某些时候不择手段，跟野兽无异德国人可以研究一颗超耐用的螺丝钉花上十几年的时间，这在中国马上笑你是个SB活活在浪费生命，价值观完全的南辕北辙！中国人是这个世界上最看重时间的人种，中国人认为时间永远是为了利益服务，那么压缩时间去额外的创造利益又绝对符合唯利主义的本质可悲的地方在于，我们根本看不到天朝人做事儿的本质有过哪怕一丝改变的迹象，还是老样子甚至还不如从前，你十几年前的跟制造你敢比吗？？那老国货把现在所谓的新产品活活甩出几条街来，因为什么？？国情越来越差，社会环境越来越差，人性怎么可能好呢？？在欧美乃至日本，规划出长久的战略目标并且实践它，是再正常不过的自然现象，但是如果是在中国，你这么干必然导致短期内收不到什么成效，外界的恶评一来，你自己真心扛不住，扛住之后做强做大的，在外国人眼里再正常不过的事儿到了天朝，你就直接成了超世之杰，立刻能被捧成最接近神的男人！实际上到了今天，我们依旧能看到一个很矛盾的现象，在我们频繁使用欧美乃至日本产品的同时，我们依旧在嘲笑着外国人的愚钝和固执，总瞧着那些人真心的头脑简单四肢发达，简直跟精干的中国人完全断档了，可是就是这些总是被嘲笑的外国人，改变了世界成为了国家的主人世界的主人，而中国依旧还是个落后国家，中国人依旧还是个为国家机器服务的P民，中国无非还是一个没有贴标签的奴役制国家！
2楼 15:04&|
此文说的太对了 中国人就是三流货自用 欺骗自己人 唯利是图倒不是事儿 主要是人太自私了 唉 人不是一般的自私和冷漠 特别是自私这一点 我深受其害 二流货港澳台 一流货出口
3楼 00:17&|
登录百度帐号我的游戏推荐游戏
后查看最近玩过的游戏
内&&容:使用签名档&&
想了解更多关于 ”驹之焰“的信息,请&或“中国产品信得过”——外国人眼里的“中国制造”
15:39:34 来源: (北京)
新华网北京7月26日电近年来，“中国制造”已成为欧洲人喜欢谈论的话题。中国《人民日报》26日发表题为《外国人眼里的“中国制造”》的文章，分别介绍了英国人和德国人对“中国制造”产品的认可和好评。
报道说，在英国伦敦北部一家专卖中国、日本和韩国食品的超市“东方城”里，几位当地顾客都表示：“我们经常来这里买东西，中国食品信得过。”
小学教师布莱恩说：“我经常来这家‘东方城’，买一些食品回家，感觉中国食品很好，从来没有遇到过质量上的问题。我喜欢中国食品，家人也很喜欢。除了自己在家里做，我们还常去中国饭馆，一个月至少要去一两回。”
布莱恩还表示，他家里的许多东西都是“中国制造”，从餐具、厨具、玩具到电器等都有，价格便宜，质量也不错，“我觉得中国产品信得过”。
报道援引搞艺术的艾迪的话说，现在英国市场上出售的中国产品越来越多，服装、电器、家庭用品都有中国货，英国人生活中每天都离不开“中国制造”。
报道介绍说，德国老太太菲舍对中国人非常友善，结交了不少中国朋友。她说：“中国产品好得很。我家里就有许多东西是‘中国制造’。”她说，中国产品价廉物美，在德国随处可见，尤其是服装。如今，不少欧美知名品牌也都产自中国，这说明这些企业信得过“中国制造”的质量。
报道说，无论到哪个商场，德国人在购买德国品牌的产品时，已越来越不在乎是“中国制造”还是“德国制造”，因为德国的不少企业早已全球化，产品来自全球各地。
萨比纳是专门跑经济新闻的德国记者，她常常批评德国媒体关于中国产品的负面报道。萨比纳说，“我本人去过中国，对中国产品质量有切身体会”。她妈妈到中国旅游时买了一些中国产品，质量很好。她认为，在德国商场买到的标有“中国制造”的知名品牌产品，质量一点儿都不差。
（来源：新华网）
本文来源：
我来评两句
网易通行证：
网易新闻今日推荐
今天网友最关心的新闻
(评1426条)
——女子读完大学后“回炉”读初中
——70后女子网上炫富狂骂80后、90后
——司机撞死男童后逃逸 被抓还嘴硬
——大学女老师银行大厅当众脱衣 考验众人承受能力
——"中国最大烂尾楼"复活 更名中石化大厦
——男子持刀爬上楼顶卖身 叫价50万
网易公司版权所有查看: 2915|回复: 50
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
本帖最后由 赫赫铭儿0 于
16:03 编辑
中国的廉价商品在全世界遭到记恨，全球化让世界处于一场无情的竞争洪流，在这场洪流中许多人失去了原有的利益，在竞争中的前进者中国因为侵犯了N多人的既得利益而受到他们的抨击。这不但在发达国家，在发展国家也是同样如此，而且我们很难看多全世界的工人阶级进行跨国界的联合，因为彼此的利益是矛盾的，因为彼此的利益矛盾来自于各个国家的产业竞争。
Dear Editor
Years ago South Africa signed its trade agreement with China and suddenly shops were filled with affordable clothing. Our economy was growing so most people had a little extra to spend and there was so much variety of affordable clothing. It was fantastic!
A few years later and the picture is a very different one! As everyone flocked to buy the cheaper alternatives, stores stopped stocking the more expensive local products. This resulted in massive job losses in our local textile industry.
As demand for cheap imports grew so the shops reduced the number of local products that they stocked. Now, with our local textile industry being almost non-existent and no longer competing with China the prices of clothing are increasing and increasing. We are now paying the equivalent of what local products would cost - the only difference is that we are getting less variety (all the shops stock the same stuff) and poorer quality.
The benefits that we reaped from trading with China have disappeared and all that remains are a bunch of empty factories, thousands of skilled people that are unemployed and consistent price hikes and clothes that don’t actually fit any body!
With our factories closed retailers are at the mercy of China, a country that is colonising the world with inferior quality. We should we frown on the ways they treat their own people with their labour laws etc, how could we have thought that they would treat a foreign country with more respect?
The scary thing is that as prices rise, retailers sell less and will eventually make cost cutting decisions that will result in more job losses.
I guess poverty is also made in China.
尊敬的编辑
数年前，南非和中国签署贸易协定，转眼间大小商铺就充斥着价美物廉的服装。我们的经济有待成长，而人们大都喜欢铺张浪费，还好这里有各种各样的廉价服装。一切都美妙极了！
过了几年，情况就完全不同了！人们成群结队地去购买廉价的替代品（指中国货），商铺停止进购比较贵的本地商品。这样一来，我们当地的纺织工业萎靡不振，流失了大量工作岗位。
廉价的进口商品供不应求，本地商品的供应量持续走低。而现在，我们当地的纺织工业已经名存实亡，中国在价格战上完胜我们，逐步地蚕食整个市场。如果我们支付相同的价格来购买本地商品——唯一的区别是，我们只能得到式样单一（所有的商品进购的都是同样的款式）和低劣的质量。
我们与中国进行的贸易没有丝毫利益，留给我们的只有空旷的工厂，大量熟练工人丢了饭碗，物价上涨，还有就是衣服并不合身！
在中国的操控下，我们的工厂失去了零售商，中国正在用质量低劣（的商品）殖民整个世界。我们应该有所警觉，我们对他们用劳工法等来统治自己的人民表示不满，又如何能寄希望于他们会善待外国呢？
令人担忧的是价格飞涨，消费减缩和零售减少最终会促使成本的降低，这样一来又会导致更多的失业问题。
我想（我们的）贫困应该是中国酿成的吧。
载入中......
鼓励积极发帖讨论
总评分:&经验 + 40&
论坛币 + 40&
学术水平 + 1&
热心指数 + 1&
信用等级 + 1&
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
--------------------------------------------------
1、Reaperman
Well Spotted....... We are seeing it in the other industries also. I am in the Mining industry and believe me, its getting hectic!
说得好…我们的其他行业也是如此。我在采矿业工作，相信我，形势日益严峻。
-----------------------------------------------------
Good Article, however &Poverty - made in China.. Perfected by the ANC.&
百年难得一见的好文章，然而贫困虽然是中国导致的，但始作俑者是南非国民大会（ANC）。
-------------------------------------------------------
3、onthefence
I too was brainwashed many years ago..by the NP and the SADF.....one day you will see the light&&
这些年我也被国家党和南非防御力量洗脑了…总有一天你会醒悟的
--------------------------------------------
5、Trackless
The danger is not the invasion...but the total disregard for DME law'S, mining regulations, and labor laws. This is not a statement.. IT IS A FACT!!! The other danger is that the Chinese now pay certain Companies to 'shut their eyes&....and these are Companies belonging to SA citizens!! all for the money!!! Go tot the Northern Cape and go see what is happening in and around Kathu area!!!
真正的危险不是入侵…而是对DME（没查到这个缩写）法规、采矿规程和劳工法的忽视。这不是陈述报告，这是事实！！另一个危险是中国人正在买通某些公司，让他们‘视而不见’…而这些公司是属于南非人民的！！所有的财富！！去北开普敦和Kathu周围看看到底发生了什么！！
-----------------------------------------------------
Even if we become protectionist we will still be poor. It is not china's fault that our people are uneducated and provide little value in the work they do. We need to have a hard look at ourselves. We are a small country. We need to inventive in what we do, instead of doing stuff that other people can do better, faster and cheaper.
即便采取贸易保护措施，我们仍然很穷。这并不是中国的错，我们的人民缺少教育，在工作岗位上不能创造财富。我们需要仔细地审视自己。我们是一个小国。我们需要因地制宜，而不是做那些别人可以做的更好、更快、更便宜的东西。
--------------------------------------------------------
7、Jacques Jones
so true. the chinese is out to create a monopoly in the world market. there is no country that can compete with them
没错。中国人企图垄断世界市场。没有国家可以与他们竞争。
-------------------------------------------
IF they played fair then any well run country could compete with them. They artificially keep their currency low to make exports cheap. They raise the barriers to entry into their own market , while if you don't allow them to enter your market you feel diplomatic pressure. They fund the lifestyles of African dictators then rape the country of its resources to make the African people suffer even more.
（回复7号评论）如果他们公平竞赛，任何运转良好的国家都可以与他们一争高下。他们人为地保持低汇率来使出口商品变得廉价。他们提高进入自己市场的壁垒，如果你不让他们进入自己的市场，就会面临外交上的压力。他们资助非洲的独裁者，然后掠夺该国的资源，使非洲人民遭受从未有之的苦难。
-------------------------------------------------------
9、dave_23
'No country that can compete with them' - the Chinese do not possess mystical powers that make their products so affordable. They are just very good at producing products competitively. But there is nothing mystical about it. You have two choices:
1. Be sour grapes and give up, assuming it's impossible to ever compete
2. Simply study why they are more competitive, and try where possible to be likewise be more competitive at production ourselves
（回复7号评论）‘没有国家可以与他们竞争’——中国并没有运用神秘的力量使自己的商品变得物美价廉。他们只是精于商品制造，有着良好的竞争力。这没什么神秘的。你有两个选择：
1、做一个酸葡萄并且放弃（购买中国货），假设根本无法与之竞争。
2、仅仅研究为什么他们具有竞争力，然后使我们的商品也变成那样。
----------------------------------------------------------------
All the local Telco's are now buying equipment from a Chinese manufacturer - in their building in Sandton they only employ people from China and a few locals. What happened to BEE ? How do they get around that ? The German and Swedish manufacturers that are losing business to them used to employ a few hundred South Africans - why does nobody from Government investigate this ?
所有的本地电话公司都从中国制造商那里购买设备——桑顿的大楼里，他们只雇佣来中国人和少量的本地人。BEE到底发生了什么？他们如何应对？德国和瑞典的制造商们丢掉了生意，他们曾雇佣了几百名南非人——为什么ZF不来调查此事？
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
11、Reaperman
as a matter of info - Chinese residents in SA enjoys the same classification as blacks in this country. About 18 months ago they were re-classified and hence a chinese foreign national have more rights in South africa than a white person born here....go figure. In other words, by employing Chinese you can achieve your AA/BEE targets...sick really!
（回复10号评论）真实的情况是——南非的中国居民享受着黑人的同等待遇（南非黑人的社会地位貌似比较高）。大约18个月以前，他们被重新分类，从此中国人在南非的权利比土生土长的白人更多…换言之，通过雇佣中国人，你才能达到AA/BEE的目标…荒唐之极！
-----------------------------------------------
12、sabc10
Perhaps its just that the chinese (asian) culture, in general, evolves. That they just regaining their place in civilisation which. they had for 1800+years.
或许这就是中国（亚洲）的文化，通常都是在不断地进化。他们只想重新归位，为了曾经延续了1800多年的文明。
-------------------------------------------------------
13、alicia
So painfully true....your article. There are so many homes where previous workers and their children are now suffering daily. And yet more and more clothing factories close down. But bet your bottom Dollar, there are those with greasy, grubby hands and smiling faces, counting the dirty money they were given as hand outs to look the other way.
你的文章…真实的让人蛋疼。很多家庭以前都是工人，现在他们的孩子每天遭受着磨难。然而，越来越多的服装工厂倒闭。赌上你兜里的最后一分钱，那些油腻而又肮脏的双手，笑意盈盈地数着龌龊的钞票，当被要求拿出一部分时，他们就顾左右而言他。
------------------------------------------------------------
The irony is that the very people who are now without jobs were those who bought the cheap Chinese imports to start with. Our workers need to find another way to fight this phenomenon. I do support a living wage, but with that you also HAVE to have improved productivity. If you can only make a single garment in the time that the Chinese can make 2 (even in their shocking conditions and sweat shops) then their garments will always be cheaper. The unions need to demand better productivity from their members at the same time as demanding higher wages. The 2 always have to go hand in hand or you price yourself out of the market.
（回复13号评论）具有讽刺意味的是，每一个失去工作的人都是以购买廉价的中国商品为开始的。我们的工人需要另辟蹊径来制止这种现象。我全力支持最低生活工资，但是你们也必须提高生产效率。在相同的时间内，如果我们做一件衣服，中国人可以做两件（甚至是在他们令人震惊的环境和血汗工厂里），那么他们的衣服就会更便宜。工会需要让他们的成员提高生产率，然后再谈薪水问题。两者必须同时进行，否则你的定价就会失去市场。
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank You ! I have been saying this for months and people have attacked me as &anti - chinese& on this very site. The fact is that they don't give a damn about you and we have made it far too easy to let them come in here and rape the country. Go to the South of Joburg and see how many &China Malls& there are - how many local clothing and textile factories have closed because of those ? Look at companies like Galencia that build townhouses in Midrand where even the door frame is imported from China - why can't they use local suppliers ? And then you see more and more Chinese executives driving around Joburg in luxury cars while locals are facing a bleak unemployed future - WAKE UP ANC !! Why are you allowing this to happen ? Since the Chinese don't play fair ( eg. artificially low currency to facilitate cheap exports ) we need to impose quotas in Chinese imports into SA.
谢谢！我曾经说过，几个月来人们会把我视为‘反华分子’而加以攻击。事实上，他们对你毫不在乎，我们搬起石头砸自己的脚，让他们太轻易地进来并且掠夺我们的国家。约翰内斯堡的南部到处林立着‘中国商城’，有多少本地的服装和纺织工业因此而倒闭？像Galencia这样的公司，建造在Midrand别墅的门框也是从中国进口的，为什么不使用本地产品呢？然后你就会看到越来越多的中国高管开着豪车在约翰内斯堡兜风的同时，本地人正面临着毫无希冀的没有工作的未来。醒醒吧，南非国民大会！！为什么你们作壁上观，毫无作为？中国人不按规则出牌（比如人为地控制汇率来刺激出口），我们需要对进入南非的中国商品课以重税。
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is that companies like Foschini etc are importing there goods, charging the world for it because you are buying it at FOSCHINI but the quality is such crap. take time to look at the stitching etc. I try not to buy &made in china& if I can possibly help it.
（回复15号评论）问题是像Foschini这样的公司都在进口商品，他们掌控着一切。你只能从Foschini去购买，而质量都奇差无比。花点时间去看看针脚等（细微之处）。如果我有能力，就不会去买‘中国制造’。
------------------------------------------------------------
17、Libertador
Free Market Capitalism is a b!tch when the markets don't move in your favour, yes.
（回复15号评论）如果己方没有受益，资本主义自由市场就是狗屎，没错。
-----------------------------------------------------------
18、Hope777
Spot on! We are in the steel manufacturing industry and are being killed with cheap imports. The prices their products land in SA is half ours, we can not even buy the raw material for the same price, indicating a certain subsidy on the Chinese side. Why is local industry not being protected by high import duties. Yes the local consumer pay more, but at least we have our own people employed that in turn feed the local economy through taxes and spendable income!! Want to create work, create factories processing our own raw material and protect them from cheap imports through high import duties, the same that applies to the motor manufacturing industry.
说得好！我们的钢铁工业正在被廉价的进口商品谋杀。他们的商品价格比我们便宜一半，我们甚至不能用相同的价格来购买原材料，中方一定是有某种补贴。为什么本地商品不能被高额的进口税所保护。当地的消费者要增加开销，但至少我们可以雇佣自己的工人，通过税收和可支配收入反过来供养当地经济！！要想增加工作岗位，开设工厂加工自己的原材料，以及通过高关税来避免廉价商品的冲击，汽车制造业也同样适用。
---------------------------------------------------
19、Tolerant
We should rather try to compete by lowering labour costs. Smaller pay is better than no pay.
（回复18号评论）我们应该用更低的人工成本来与之竞争。报酬少点总好过一文不名。
------------------------------------------------------
Chinese products are cheaper precisely BECAUSE the quality is so bad. Local markets have to give better quality in order to retain the market. You may find Chana cars are cheaper, but they dont eliminate the VW's and Toyotas because they simply cannot compete on a quality level - and those VW's and Toyota's are EXPORTED as well, because the quality is not allowed to deteriorate. Our unions need to stop demanding higher and higher wages for less and less work. They need to realise that to compete in an open, global market, you have to be the BEST at a reasonable rate. Until our labour market realises this, it is a lost cause fighting against cheap Chinese imports. But if mines/industry do not realise that they are buying inferior quality spares and machinery, I dont hold out much hope. They will break down and we will all lose in the end.
（回复18号评论）中国货之所以便宜，是因为质量很差。本地市场必须提高质量来保有市场。你可能觉得长安汽车更便宜，但他们不会拒绝大众和丰田，因为他们在质量上无法与之相提并论。大众和丰田车也同样用于出口，因为质量并不被允许变坏。我们的工会必须停止要求更多的报酬和更少的工作。他们必须认识到自己是在同公开的、全球的市场竞争，必须以合理的速率做到最好。在我们的劳动力市场明白这些之前，与廉价的中国商品进行竞争无疑是自取灭亡。但如果采矿/工业没有认识到，他们仍在购买次品和机械，我不敢抱太大希望。他们终会破产，我们也会失掉一切。
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
21、pop101
Walked through a Chinese shop the other day and saw some really funny product names (as alternatives to the real deal), example: XBOX 360 = ZBOX 360, sony = somy etc. etc Who endorse these imports.
（回复18号评论）前几天路过一家中国商铺，看到了很多好玩的产品名称（作为正牌的替代品），比如：XBox360=ZBox360，Sony=Somy等等。谁同意了这些坑爹货的。
-----------------------------------------------------
22、Zoolie
Whats that old saying now again ahhhh yes ..... penny wise, pound foolish.
那句老话怎么说来着，哦对了…小事聪明，大事糊涂。
--------------------------------------------------
All trade agreements with China need to be reviewed and re-thought. However, we cant only blame them, we need to look at our internal labour policies and the Union intervention (June - July strike seasons). These are the real culprits, because they are the ones who make labour such a prickly pear in industry today. The problem is not about paying a &livable wage&, it's more about the unions with unrealistic demand on business in general and the impact thereof, i.e. businesses closing down or off-shoring because labour too expensive in SA and UNRELIABLE!
所有与中国的贸易协定都需要检讨和重新评估。然而，我们不能仅仅责怪他们，看看我们国内的劳工政策和工会调停（六、七月份的罢工季）。他们才是真正的罪人，因为他们使工人变成了当今工业的刺头。问题并不是支付‘过得去的薪水’，而是工会在商业上不切实际的要求和影响，也就是生意中断或者离岸贸易是因为南非的劳动力太昂贵，而且很不靠谱。
---------------------------------------------------
This comment sums it up nicely. You cannot compete with a giant like China if your labour force is constantly being hiccupped by strikes and union demands.
（回复23号评论）这则评论总结的恰到好处。如果你的劳动力一直被罢工和工会要求所中断，那么就根本无法同中国这样的巨人相抗衡。
--------------------------------------------------
I think you have hit the nail on the head and in the coffin of our local labourers. But yet they are so stupid and uneducated that they listen to every word the Unions dish out to them. Someone needs to tell the labourers that the increase that they go on strike is also an increase to their monthly payment to be a union member. The unions are getting richer but are the workers getting any better. All the strikes leads to a lot of businesses closing because of turnover - that is why the China brand is doing so well in SA. GO FIGURE !!!!!
（回复23号评论）说的很中肯呀，对于我们的本地劳动力尤为重要。可是他们不但愚蠢，而且缺少教育，对于工会言听计从。有些人告诉工人们继续罢工也可以增加薪水，而且还可以成为工会的成员。工会变得更加富有，但工人们只能得到一点汤汤水水。所有的罢工导致大量的生意流失，这也是为什么中国品牌在南非大行其道的原因所在。好好想想吧！！！
-----------------------------------------------------
Labour is as much entitled to protect itself as you 3 are entitled to protect your assets. A living wage implies that families less entitled and fortunate then you can provide the love and financial security that any family deserves. Furthermore, the money earned by a local labourer does not simply vanish, it re-enters our economy when they purchase goods. Civilization itself is threatened when disparities in wealth reach levels witnessed globally. The pyramid is most symbolic of man's hubris & inhumanity yet your conception of mankind celebrates the pyramid with the CEO shareholders and you 3 at the top and the nuisances making, ungrateful subhuman labourers at the bottem. My advise to you 3. Grow a soul.
（回复23、24、25号评论）工人们有权保护进行自我防卫，正如你们有权保护自己的财产。最低生活工资意味着较少的家庭权利和幸福，然后你可以提供给每个家庭应得的爱与财产保护。此外，本地工人挣得的工资并不会凭空消失，当他们购买商品的时候，钱还会重新回到我们的经济当中。当财富差距达到一定水平时，文明自身就会被反噬。金字塔最能体现人类的傲慢和残暴，然而你们的设想是让CEO、股东和你们三个站在金字塔的顶端，而让麻烦制造者、讨厌的非人劳工们处于最底层。我给你们的建议是，洗涤一下心灵吧。
------------------------------------------------
27、dave_23
I see you've been slobbering up Marx. Communism has been tried over and over and failed catastrophically every single time.
（回复26号评论）我想你是垂涎于马克思的共产主义，一次又一次地尝试，却惨遭失败。
--------------------------------------------------------
28、piet.strydom
Trickle down is slow, but it does work, and work very well. It works better if people are willing to make a productive contribution to the economy. Take any measure of living standards, and most people are better of now than 20 years ago on most measures. How many people now have TV, satelite dishes, electricity, running water that they didn't have even 10 years ago. Ah, but it is the government, I hear some people say...
Even if it was the government, they did so by using taxes paid by working individuals and businesses.
Look at any measure you care to, number of hours needed to work for an hour of cooking, or a hour of heating, or to travel 10 km. If it wasn't for aids, even life expectancy would have been better.
（财富的）渗透很慢，但起码还在进行，而且运行良好。如果人们都乐于对经济做出富有成效的贡献，那就最好不过了。无论是衡量哪种生活水平，大多数人过的都比20年前要更好。有多少人现在拥有10年前所没有的电视机、卫星接收器、电器和自来水。但这是官方报告，我听有人说…
即便时出自ZF，他们也在用私人和商业的税收来做这些事情。
看看你所关心的任何数据，需要工作多少小时才可以烹饪一小时或者加热一小时，抑或是10公里的旅行。如果不是因为艾滋，平均寿命应该会更高。
---------------------------------------------------
29、Dougalan
The simple truth is that China is hell-bent on world domination. They have a population of 1.2 billion, are expert hagglers and they have - I'm sorry to say - totally outwitted most countries in Africa with their offers and bribes that have now rebounded on the poor, as Cheryl has so clearly pointed out. And I guess it will continue in SA until there is some honesty in the ANC ranks not to accept profitable deals that sell out South Africans of all races.
事实很简单，中国对于控制世界梦寐以求。他们拥有12亿人口，最擅长讨价还价，他们用提议和贿赂完全蒙蔽了大多数非洲国家，并在穷人身上得到了回报，Cheryl（本文作者，以后还会出现，不再注释）就很明确地指出了这一点。我想南非还会这样下去，除非南非国民大会里的有识之士拒绝有利可图的交易，否则南非就会卖光所有的种族。
------------------------------------------------------
30、Lions Man
I'm sorry to say but they have done the exact same thing in the US... The reason the US is/has experiencing such major job losses is because all the US companies are basing manufacturing in china at the expense of the US job market, so I don't think its only an African problem. It seems like the Europeans have done a better job at safe guarding against this by focussing on highly skilled labour and manufacturing processes that the chinese only wish they could replicate.
（回复29号评论）很抱歉，我要说的是他们在美国也做着同样的事情…美国正在/曾经经历的如此重大的失业问题的原因就是所有美国公司以国内劳动力市场为代价，把制造工厂建在了中国，所以我认为这不仅仅是非洲的麻烦。由于欧洲人对高熟练工人和制造工艺的安全防护，他们的就业问题不大，中国人只能寄希望于他们自毁长城。
----------------------------------------------
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
31、Rammsteen
Agreed Cheryl, It was always going to go this way when our Government started with the trade agreement. Following this - watch for more inferior product from India - and less work opportunities locally.
我同意Cheryl，从我们的政府签署贸易协定开始，这种情况就不可避免。接下来要做的就是，等待来自印度更差的商品和更少的本地就业机会。
-----------------------------------
32、werner.smidt
No, no. The problem lies at home. The fact that local workers go on strike every other month has a lot to do with factories closing. People want million Rand salaries for menial work. The consumer, i.e. your fellow South African has to pay for that increase in the end. It's time to pull up your socks and drop your chin a bit. It's a competitive market.
不，不。问题还是出在自身。事实是本地的工人隔三差五地举行罢工，从而导致工厂倒闭。人们从事着低贱的工作，却妄想百万兰特的薪水 （兰特是南非货币，和人民币的汇率大致相等）。消费者，也就是你的南非同胞们最终将为此买单。是时候振作起来，停止空谈了。这是一个竞争的市场。
----------------------------------------
33、sabc10
I would agree. Worldwide despite the recession first world corporates are making the biggest share of the profits. Its not only china that is competitive. Its IndiA, Brazil, Eastern Europe, Mexico and other emerging markets. Even other african countries like Nigeria is improving their economies. In countries like eg china or brazil it is very competitive.
We have a developing country but managers or directors get salaries that is far greater than any other developing country and in many cases more than first world countries. Services is of poor quality and quantity compared to what we pay.
（回复32号评论）我基本同意。尽管全世界都在衰退，而第一世界则分享着最多的蛋糕。这不仅仅是中国的竞赛，还有印度、巴西、东欧、墨西哥和其他新兴市场。甚至是像尼日利亚这样的非洲国家也在发展经济。而像中国或者巴西这样的国家则具有很强的竞争力。
我们是一个发展中国家，但管理者和董事们拿到的薪水远高于其他发展中国家和一些发达国家。低劣的服务质量和数量与我们付出的毫不相称。
--------------------------------------------
34、werner.smidt
I actually saw the same mentality when I was in the States (in New Mexico specifically) for a couple of months. There, some janitors demand a $40/hour wage with 7 hour shifts because they have large families. . .it is not the responsibility of the employer to take responsibility for your bad decisions. The parallels were striking. They have the audacity to blame &foreigners& for taking &American jobs& . . but really, the foreigners are DOING American jobs. Sound familiar?
（回复33号评论）我在美国（特别是在新墨西哥州）的两个月里也见过这种心态。在新墨西哥，一些门卫要求每小时40美元的薪水和7小时工作制，因为他们的家庭十分庞大…雇主没有义务对你的坏决定负责。然后就是罢工。他们厚颜无耻地指责‘外国人’拿走了‘美国人的工作’…但事实上，外国人正在做着美国人的工作。听起来是不是似曾相识？
--------------------------------------------
35、Ederik
You are right. All the 'Proudly South-African Bok Supporters', check where your Springbok outfits were made! The country making the most of this world cup is China!
你说得对。所有‘傲慢的南非跳羚队支持者们’，看看你们跳羚队的装备是哪里制造的！ （译者注：跳羚队Springbok是南非的一支橄榄球队）充分利用了这届世界杯的国家恰恰是中国！（应该是指去年的南非世界杯）
----------------------------------------------
36、Tolerant
We should also look at our labour costs, it is too high. Even Mr Mandela's newest book were printed in China. I am sure he asked for local quotes, probably too high.
（回复35号评论）我们应该考虑一下自己的劳动力成本，实在是太高了。甚至是曼德拉先生的新书也是在中国印刷的。我相信他询问过当地的报价，可能负担不起。
原创翻译:龙腾网
翻译:病中乃知
--------------------------------------------
37、Proefleser
If these two comments are true - and I have no reason to doubt it - that is indeed shocking.
（回复35、36号评论）如果这两条评论是真的，那么我没有理由怀疑，这太令人吃惊了。
----------------------------------------------
38、JGerber
Agreed! In addition it is not only China that will have this effect on our economy. Overseas 'investment' corporations taking over South Africa is also problematic. Instead of corporate money being’re-invested’ (through jobs, bonuses etc,) to SA employees which in return stimula this money ends up in pockets of a few elite. This, in my opinion, will most likely be used as capital for further world domination / self enrichment opportunities. I would rather buy less, but pay more for a product or local service to secure our children’s economic and employment future and also locally stimulate REAL competition, but I guess I am one of a few.
我同意！此外，不仅是中国影响着我们的经济，海外‘投资’公司掌控南非也是隐患。共同财富的受益者（通过工作、奖金等）本来是南非的雇工，作为回报它们会刺激消费开支，而现在这些钱落入了少数精英的口袋里。我的观点是，这些钱很有可能作为资金被用于进一步支配世界或充实自我的机会。我宁可少买一些，也不愿为产品或本地服务花冤枉钱，以此来保护我们弱不禁风的经济和就业前景，当然也会激发本地真正的竞争力，但是我想我只是少数这样的人而已。
--------------------------------------------------------
Poor quality, poisoned food, cheap imitations, pirating brands and trade marks, dodging tax (have you tried to get a tax invoice at the China market?), cheap labour, child labour, undemocratic politics, and so the list goes on. These are what the Chinese are up to.
if its made in China & I have a local alternative (even at a higher price) I buy local. Food stuff? never buy made in China. Checkers, Woolworths & Edgars all import from China, and this hurts our local economy. The other side of the coin is our local labour and other laws making it extremely difficult for local business to firstly operate productively and secondly be competitive.
质量低劣、有毒食品、便宜的山寨货、盗版品牌和商标、偷税漏税（你在中国的市场开过发票吗？）、廉价劳动力、童工、不民主的政治…名单还有很长。这些都应当由中国人负责。
我有一个简单的购买方针：如果是中国制造，同时又有本地产品可供选择（即便价格高一点），我也会购买。食品？绝不买中国货。Checkers、沃尔沃斯和Edgars（三者都是南非的超市）都从中国进口货物，这对于我们当地的经济不利。另一方面则是我们的劳动力和一些法律对于本地的商业也有义不容辞的责任，首先要有立竿见影的效果，其次是变得有竞争力。
------------------------------------------------------
I was at Clicks a few months back and they were selling Clicks brand chips - on the packet it says &Packaged in South Africa&. Luckily I spotted the box it comes in ( they were still packing the shelves ) and on the box was a Chinese address. Now would you eat something made in China ? Isn't Clicks screwing the public here
（回复39号评论）几个月以前，我在Clicks上班，他们销售的是Clicks牌的薯条，包装上写的是‘产自南非’。我侥幸看到了运进来的箱子（它们仍然被放在架子上），盒子上是一个中文地址。现在你是不是吃了一些产自中国的东东？Clicks欺骗了所有人。
---------------------------------------------------
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
41、Sickly
I don't hear any of you actually thanking the Chinese for reducing our inflation rate significantly. There are two side to this discussion and you have only voiced one side of it. If China can make things cheaper and more efficiently than kudos, the challenge is for us as a country to identify what we have a competitive advantage in (cue a couple of idiots reading this to make a couple of stupid comments like we're really good at corruption etc etc).
事实上，我没有听到你说过任何感激的话，至少中国人帮助我们降低了通货膨胀。这个讨论有两个方面，而你只说出了其中一面。如果中国人可以生产出比名声更便宜更有效率的商品，对于我们国家来说，这是一个检验我们的竞争优势的挑战。（一些白痴读到了这些，然后发表了一些诸如‘实际上我们对贪污很在行’等白痴评论）
--------------------------------------------
42、sabc10
I agree. The americans and other nations already realise this. They created the &free market & principles. Countries like china are buying south african &products& and preventing south africa from getting into a depression.
（回复41号评论）我同意。美国和其它国家早已领悟。他们创建了‘自由市场’的法则。像中国这样的国家购买南非的‘商品’，并且防止陷入衰退。
---------------------------------------------------
We make cars , for example , but they won't allow you to export into their market. They tip the scales in their favour
（回复41号评论）比如说，我们制造了汽车，但他们不允许你出口到他们的市场。他们把天平倾斜到了自己一方。
-----------------------------------------------------
44、john_jones
You call yourself a South African Born Chinese ( hence the sabc ) but you stick up for China regardless. If you are a South African you should stick up first and foremost for South Africa. And you can still be proud of your heritage at the same time. China does not buy South African ' products' at all. I have been shopping in quite a few Chinese Supermarkets and yet to see any South African products on sale anywhere. It buys South African resources. Which I have no problem with - so does the US and Germany and the UK etc etc but Cheryl's point and the point of most people here is that the relationship between China and South Africa is becoming too one sided. Heads China wins Tails South Africa loses. This situation needs to be recognized and addressed before the relationship sours irrevocably.
（回复42号评论）你自称是一名在南非长大的中国人，而你却在为中国辩护。如果你是一名南非人，就应该首先为南非着想。同时，你也可以为自己的传统而感到骄傲。中国根本就没有购买南非的商品。我曾经光顾过非常多的中国超市，只能看到很少的南非货。它们购买了南非的资源。这些我没有意见，美国、德国以及英国等国也是这么做的。但Cheryl和大多数人的观点是中国和南非的关系呈一边倒的趋势。中国是赢家正面朝上，南非是输家背面朝下（这句话应该是掷硬币之类的说法）。在关系无可避免地变坏之前，这种情形需要被重新认知和处理。
------------------------------------------------
45、Hope777
Labour cost is only a portion of your total manufacturing cost. The big price difference between locally manufactured goods and the cheap imports is much more than the labour factor. Even if labour is 100% more effective will you still not be able to compete. Chinese products are cheaper due to their government supporting their manufacturing industry through export subsidies, cheap factories, lower taxes, etc. Yes labour need to be more effective, but without government support/protection local industry will be killed off and with it work opportunities!
劳动力成本只是制造成本的一部分。本地的制成品和廉价的进口商品的价差远大于劳动力因素。即便让劳动力提高100%的效率也很难与之竞争。中国的产品之所以便宜，是因为他们的ZF通过出口补贴、廉价的车间、较低的税率等等来扶植他们的制造业。没错，劳动力需要提高效率，但是没有ZF的支持和保护，本地产业很难存活，工作机会也就无从谈起！
------------------------------------------------
46、googling
We are getting the benefit of cheaper products. Unfortunately, with globalisation we are playing in the big league and our costs are not competitive. If they can buy raw materials from us, manufacture the product and ship it back and sell it at a price lower than our cost, then it says something about our competitiveness.
我们从廉价的商品中获得好处。不幸的是，随着全球化的到来，我们加入了这个联盟，而我们的成本没有竞争力。如果他们可以从我们这里购买原材料，制成产品然后再运回来，以低于我们成本的价格销售，然后就开始拿我们的竞争力来说事。
-----------------------------------------------------------
47、Libertador
Strange how all the ambassadors of the &Free-Market& have so little to say when the markets move in their favour.... And have so much to say, when it moves against...
The trade imbalance between South Africa and China has come about not only because the Chinese have learnt how to make manufactured goods at very high quality and very low cost but also because we haven't moved up the value chain adequately whilst they have been doing this.
Too much of our resources and too many of our brightest individuals have gone into the financial services sector, pursuing quick bucks ponzi wealth schemes.
奇怪的是，当市场属于他们时，所有‘自由市场’的代言人们都笑而不语…而当市场开始朝另一侧倾斜时，每个人都喋喋不休牢骚满腹…
南非和中国之间贸易不平衡的产生不仅是因为中国已经学会了如何制造物美价廉的商品，还因为我们没有充分地提升价值链，而他们已经做完了这些。
我们的很多资源和事业有成的精英们对于金融服务业趋之若鹜，从事于来钱快的庞氏骗局。 （译者注：庞氏骗局是指骗人向虚设的企业投资，以后来投资者的钱作为快速盈利付给最初投资者以诱使更多人上当。）
----------------------------------------------------
48、zackie
the chinese are not interested in quality only quantity..they make cheap knock offs
（回复47号评论）中国人只对数量感兴趣，而非质量，他们用价格来击倒一切。
原创翻译:龙腾网
翻译:病中乃知
------------------------------------
49、dave_23
This &letter& is such an obvious fake plant by the local textile industry. Sour grapes.
Here's a hint, Cheryl: The local textile industry would be BOOMING, with loads of local job creation, if you were simply more competitive. There is a reason we buy goods from China, and it's not because artificial &agreements& were &signed& - it's because the Chinese make the product cheaper. All you need to do to get all that wonderful business, is also make your products more affordable. It's really that simple.
The fact that it's cheaper to have our clothes made on a different continent on the opposite side of the planet and then shipped tens of thousands of kilometers, than to just make them locally, is a damning indictment of just how uncompetitive our local textile industry is.
很明显，这封‘信’是当地纺织业伪造的。酸葡萄心理。
Cheryl这是一种暗示：如果我们可以更具竞争力，当地的纺织业本也可以兴旺发达，创造大量的工作岗位，这也是我们为什么要购买中国货的原因，并不是因为‘签订’了伪造的‘协定’，而是中国人使得商品变得更廉价。你们也需要做到这种程度，让你们的产品在可承受的范围之内。就是这么简单。
事实是，产自地球另一边不同的大陆的衣服，在用船运送数万公里之后，也比当地产的便宜。我们当地的纺织工业的竞争力究竟如何，从此可见一斑。
---------------------------------------------------
50、patrickb
Great letter!
Must however also blame our ridiculous labour laws for worsening this problem.
这封信写的很好！不管怎么说，我们荒谬的劳工法也难辞其咎，它使问题变得更糟。
----------------------------------------------
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
51、postmanpat
I see a major flaw in Chinese products the majority are rubbish they are of such inferior quality its scary yet we consumers are insistent on buying them. We really need to wake up and stop buying this stuff. If we the consumer didnt buy them then shops would stop selling The consumer actually hold the solution and we control with our buying power. Good article.
我发现中国产品最大的问题就是大多数都是垃圾，质量极其低下，使用时也要提心吊胆，而我们的消费者仍然坚持购买他们。我们需要反省，停止购买这些东西。如果我们的消费者不买中国货，那么商铺也会停止销售。彻底解决了消费的问题，我们也就能控制购买力了。百年难得一见的好文章啊。
----------------------------------------
it starts at home - buy made in south africa, and encourage others to do. When our organisation makes tshirts we use local factories - it costs R80/tshirt including printing of the logo - and we know we have done our bit for local employment.
问题出在我们自身，购买南非货，鼓励别人也这样做。当我们用本地的工厂生产出成本为80兰特的T恤，包括logo的印刷时，我们就可以为当地的工人做点什么了。
------------------------------------------------
I went to Woolworths on Sunday to buy crockery. Picked up a pack, MADE IN CHINA, put it back on the shelf and walked out. Why can companies like Woolworths not support the local manufacturers. Our people need food and jobs. Charity begins at home.
星期天我去沃尔沃斯购买餐具。拿起包装一看，中国制造，又把它放回了货架，然后径直离开了。为什么像沃尔沃斯这样的公司不采购本地的产品呢。我们的人民需要食物和工作。不扫一屋，何以扫天下。（原文是仁爱始于家）
-------------------------------------------------------
54、PickBadballie
China's policy of world domination through people export and the active destruction of economies has come to pass, Pity the ANC could have led this country from strength to strength, instead they sold us out to pay their struggle debts to communist concerns. This is only the beginning, remember that Chinese Immigrants are classified as Blacks by the ANC and are therefor entitled to grants and assistance that are not even available to indigenous South Africans.
中国支配世界的政策是通过输出人口和摧毁经济来实现的，真是可惜了南非国民大会（ANC）这帮脑残，他们本可以让这个国家变得越来越强大，却为了彼此竞争而把我们作为抵押卖给了共产党。这才只是个开始，别忘了中国移民被南非国民大会归类于黑人，因此他们享有南非的本地人都没有补助和津贴。
--------------------------------------------------------
Some people cannot afford the more expensive items, and for them Chinese items represent value. I do however think there is an onus on people who can afford to avoid purchasing Chinese imports and rather selecting a local or alternatively sourced item, to then do so. If one can afford to not buy Chinese then dont.
有些人负担不起昂贵的商品，而中国货价超所值。无论如何，我认为让人们不用购买中国货，而可以负担得起本地或者原产商品是一种责任所在，希望能够这么做。如果每个人都能负担得起，那么他们也不会购买中国货。
----------------------------------------------------------
56、allows
Have you been to Woolworths lately? They sell &made in China& clothing but still at high Woolies prices. They are ripping us off - pun intended. The clothes rip after a couple of wears. Poor poor quality but still high high prices.
你最近去过沃尔沃斯吗？他们销售‘中国’制造的衣服，但价格还是比Woolies要高。他们欺骗了我们。衣服穿上几次就会开缝。质量差的不能再差，而价格高的不能再高。
------------------------------------------------------------
57、 Tieneke
I live in a very small town. We have no less than 12 Chinese shops, selling the same BS. Thats not all. They exploit the workers. Let them sign contracts to work for R150 a week. Take it or leave. And the local Labor office will NEVER pay them a visit either.......They are prepared to pay double the rent for a premises, putting local people at a disadvantage. How they survive is just a million dollar question. What were they thinking making a deal with the Chinese????
我居住在一个小镇上。我们这里的中国商铺至少有12家，销售着相同的垃圾。这还不是全部。他们剥削工人，让他们在每周只有150兰特的劳动合同上签字。要么接受，要么走人。当地的劳工局从来不进行调查走访…他们准备支付双倍的租金，将当地人置于不利的地位。他们将要如何生存，这是一个严峻的问题。他们在思考需要同中国人做出哪些妥协？？？
---------------------------------------------------------------
58、Tolerant
It is difficult but a low paying job is better than nothing. (I think) Another alternative is to move to the city, but that also costs money.
（回复57号评论）虽然很困难，但工资低一些总比没有强。（我认为）另一种选择就是移居到城市，但开销很大。
----------------------------------------------
59、Libertador
A close scrutiny of China’s bilateral trade figures shows that China runs trade surplus with much of the developed nations and a trade deficit with many of the (resource rich) developing nations, thereby passing its huge trade surplus competitiveness to certain parts of the developing world, down the value chain.
1st time in the history of the world, a nation has been singled out for being competitive (or manipulative) in having a sustainable competitive edge in manufacturing practices, due to an unending supply of cheap labour. One may cite the example of Japan and the Plaza Accord of 1985.
However China isn’t Japan. China is ten-times bigger than Japan when it comes to population. Japan’s cheap labour advantage didn’t sustain long, albeit its process and technical innovations advantage has sustained to a certain extent.
If a company operates with less margin, is it a crime? If Chinese exporters operate on razor-thin margins, they should be praised for that.
In a nutshell, China’s trade practices might have worked against the interests of a few (domestic manufacturing employment elsewhere, profitability of firms elsewhere), but it has simultaneously resulted in benefiting much of the world as vast majority of the world could afford many of these Chinese-made products for the 1st time (which forced competition to cut costs also), erstwhile reserved for the rich, at costs within their reach.
仔细审视中国的双边贸易指标就会发现，他们与大多数发达国家贸易是顺差，与大多数发展（物产丰富）中国家贸易是逆差。因此他们把巨大贸易顺差转移到发展中国家一部分，以此来降低价值链。
世界历史上第一次由于充足的廉价劳动力而在制造标准上具有可持续的竞争优势的国家早已有之。日本和1985年的广场协定就是一个很好的例子。
然而，中国不同于日本。就人口而言，中国比日本大十倍。日本廉价劳工的优势没有维持多久，尽管它在流程和技术创新方面还有一定的优势。
如果一个公司的运行没有利润来源，这是犯罪吧？如果中国的出口商只能获得极其微薄的利润，他们也应该受到褒扬。
简单地说，中国的贸易制度违背了某些人（其他国家的国内制造业工人和其它公司的收益）的利益，与此同时，世界绝大部分
为了购买这些中国货有史以来第一次得到了补助的资格（被动的竞争也降低了成本），以往为富人量身定制的（商品）价格也定在他们所能及的范围之内。
-------------------------------------------------------
The trade agreement was established to hurt business in SA, to take it out the hands of the Whites, Too many jobs were lost, It was not a good move, as the desired results weren't achieved!
贸易协定的签订损害了南非的商业，接过了白人的旗帜，大量工作流失，这不是什么好事，而预期的结果仍未实现！
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
61、zackie
poverty is made in china but supported by the anc with the unions and strict labour laws
贫困是中国酿造的，但南非国民大会伙同工会和劳工法则在背后给予支持。
---------------------------------------------------------
62、zackie
my dad started a shoe factory in SA in 1990 but closed after 95 due to unions demands and huge volume of illegal imports flooding SA and then sold on by the informal traders
1990年，我爸爸在南非开办了一家鞋厂，95年因为工会的要求和大量走私货充斥南非而关闭，然后就做起了日常贸易。
------------------------------------------------
So right, but then are we really surprised? SA is becoming an expert at self destruction. We weaken ourselves and strengthen other nations coz we are too blind to see the benefit of working together to build a strong nation
说的没错，但我们真的很惊讶吗？南非正在变得擅长于自我破坏。我们自伤元气，喂饱了其他国家， 我们对联合起来建立一个强大的国家而带来的利益熟视无睹。
--------------------------------------------------
It is worth noting that a huge amount of CHina's success is due to the fact they came into the mass-production industries much later than other countries with a workforce that was decades behind other countries in wages. This has given China a great advantage, they can buy technology and pay people 100 dollars instead of 3000 dollars, so no surprise they are super-competitive. However this will cause them problems down the line, with a population like theirs, any social projects are hugely expensive to fund and wages will need to come more into line with international norms. It's a paradise for them now, but it wont last for ever, they could in time be sitting on huge problems of their own. They are in the luxurious position of not really having to take into account the opinions, feelings and living conditions of 70% of their population - with no repercussions whatsoever.
中国取得再多的成功也没有任何价值，因为他们迟于其他国家进入劳动密集型产业，劳动力的薪水落后于其他国家长达几十年之久。这是中国的巨大优势，他们可以购买技术，支付给人们100美元而不是3000美元，所以不要惊异于他们超强的竞争力。然而这样一来也会催生很多问题，像他们这样的人口基数，任何社会工程的投资和薪水都是一笔不菲的开销，他们需要与国际标准进一步接轨。现在对于他们而言是天堂，但不会永远这样，他们自身有着诸多的症结。他们身居庙堂之高，没有必要考虑70%人口的看法、感受和居住环境，也不会做出任何回应。
奖励积极上传好的资料
总评分:&经验 + 20&
论坛币 + 20&
学术水平 + 1&
热心指数 + 1&
信用等级 + 1&
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
中国网民大吐槽：
你们的贫困------懒惰制造
只出一分力就想拿十分的钱，谁不想啊，中国人也不是傻子！但中国人很实际明白一个道理，不做事谁给你啊，你当天上真会掉馅饼啊
雇佣更廉价勤奋的员工不是理所当然的吗！你们黑人（其实白人也一个鸟样）太不切实际了，又想高福利，又想不做事，找不到工作就埋怨别人是别人的错！享受高福利不要说你南非不可能，就看看明煮的希腊。意大利也吃不消，快完蛋了（说白了福利就是大锅饭，个个都不工作，就等着喝西北风吧，看希腊终于等到喝风的机会了）
外国人总是说中国人抢走他们的工作，从来不想一下失去工作的真正原因，现实中中国人要求更实际只要满足基本条件就愿意工作了，而外国人把自己想得太高级（其是就一自以为是的SB）要求太高，自然难以满足，自然没人要啊。
这是竞争的世界，失败自然是找自己的原因，没道理TM勤奋工作的人，还要被懒虫骂，这个什么狗屁道理，
记得100多年前，某些国家是通过战争打开我们的国门，向我们倾销大量廉价的商品，让中国大量手工业者失业，造成了严重的社会问题，最终出现分裂的危机，如今我们用他们制定的规则，不用战争就可以这样倾销。正所谓，出来混，迟早要还的。
一.中国人勤劳，尽管是被逼的，谁都知道不干活没饭吃，富二代除外。
二.南非人懒惰，中国过去搞建筑还要自带工人，隔三差五搞个罢工，还要拿工资。
三.中国ZF作为强有力后盾，在“走出去”国家战略下，补贴和退税成为强有力武器。
中国的特色资本主义推进的太快了，这个速度在过10-20年可能很多产业都会垄断，这是一个非常可怕的事情。希望国家能够在未来把重心挪到国内，重点改善国内百姓的生存条件。我不希望看到世界各国都把中国当成威胁，然后第三次世界大战爆发。这让我的P民为了祖国的崛起，牺牲了自己的同时，还承担不必要的风险。一点好日子都没过上。
一直以来我就觉得非洲人压根就是这幅鸟样，而我对大量涌入中国的非洲人感到很不乐观，我们早就应该作出限制，但问题是总有圣母说这TM是种族歧视，什么人类起源于非洲大陆。我想这种人是不是应该跟在黑人背后享受硬又黑呢
中国工会不在中国工人手里，以国家垄断的方式向世界倾销，别的国家有工会维护工人利益，而中国的工会鸟事不干，想彻底击败中国，只有一种方法，用更邪恶的制度，奴隶模式，以超低的生存成本击垮中国，以邪恶制邪恶，以毒攻毒
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
我居住在一个小镇上。我们这里的中国商铺至少有12家，销售着相同的垃圾。这还不是全部。他们剥削工人，让他们在每周只有150兰特的劳动合同上签字。要么接受，要么走人。当地的劳工局从来不进行调查走访…他们准备支付双倍的租金，将当地人置于不利的地位。他们将要如何生存，这是一个严峻的问题。他们在思考需要同中国人做出哪些妥协？？？
==========================
看了这则留言，事情变得很明显了。
雇主给出的薪水不能达到你的要求，那就别干了呗。事情就是这么简单。总有一方要屈服。又想干，还又要求付给你更多的薪水，这是什么逻辑。
这就跟作买卖一样，不能接受价格，买卖不成功。就是这么一回事。现在你接受不了价格，还非要把东西买回去。这种思维方式还真是叫人匪夷所思。似乎也太以自己为中心了吧，以为自己是老几。
我很奇怪南非人的这种思维方式。
全世界民猪国家的人都是这个思维方式，一群又馋又懒的反华废物，还好他们的ZF官员都是精英，相对没这么弱智，国家得以维持
中国人的思维是，想干就干，不干拉倒，有人会干。
外国人的思维是，给我高工钱，我才干。
不得不说，这现实就是这样，早在2000 年前“奇货可居”就是这么来的，当你工作岗位少于劳动人口的时候老板就能压低工资。。。当然，无限竞争下去这说法明显是阁下无知了，当无论得到工作岗位和得不到工作岗位都无法生存下去的时候，也就是这个底线了。
还有，无论任何制度都有优劣，只看它时候适应当时环境。而明显地，适当竞争能保持进取心。这个应该不用多说，蠢猪四国现今的情况很好的说明问题了。
开始说南非同价格的商品质量恶劣竞争不过中国物美价廉的商品。后来又说中国货质量烂。很矛盾好不好，事实就是，中国商品是同价位质量最好的。
拿着一分钱想买10分钱的东西然后还要求有10分钱的质量想的挺好啊。
关键的地方是南飞生存不出更低价格的产品，因为他们的工会在工人手里，工人不会接受无限制的加班加点和恶劣的工厂环境，生产成本较高，工会与商会制衡，中国却是工会与商会勾结
观点有启发
总评分:&经验 + 20&
论坛币 + 20&
学术水平 + 1&
热心指数 + 1&
信用等级 + 1&
论坛好贴推荐}
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&签到排名：今日本吧第个签到，本吧因你更精彩，明天继续来努力！
本吧签到人数：0成为超级会员，使用一键签到本月漏签0次！成为超级会员，赠送8张补签卡连续签到：天&&累计签到：天超级会员单次开通12个月以上，赠送连续签到卡3张
关注：299贴子：
中国制造看分什么收藏
虽然在欧美国家，依旧和垃圾划着等号但是对外和对内，那完全是2个不一样的档次和质量，中国制造的出口商品也许达不到西方世界的质量认证，但是完爆内地市场的中国制造是完全没有任何疑问的我以前在电视机厂干过，熊猫电视机厂，出口到的21寸在质量上基本能把在国内销售的当时29寸高清爆出翔来，因为我们流水线经常出现组装成型的电视经常因为滑轮的问题而导致掉落在地上，出口到伊拉克的电视基本完好无损，而在国内销售的29寸高清只要掉到地上那就是一声巨响，接着就是冒烟，然后由我这个负责组装显象管的贴上报废标签还记得蒙牛那副红遍网络的截图吗？？销售到香港的蒙牛和大陆的蒙牛，安全性上人家自己率先承认是2个档次你应该知道是个什么东西了吧，中国人打根儿上是不拿自己人当人的，这不是大TC的问题，自古就这揍性，活在这样一个到处坑爹的国家，谈幸福就太奢侈了，你连基本的安全感都得不到保证！！
1楼 14:48&|
中国人本质上的唯利主义，使得中国人几乎普遍的根本心态就是急功近利甚至某些时候不择手段，跟野兽无异德国人可以研究一颗超耐用的螺丝钉花上十几年的时间，这在中国马上笑你是个SB活活在浪费生命，价值观完全的南辕北辙！中国人是这个世界上最看重时间的人种，中国人认为时间永远是为了利益服务，那么压缩时间去额外的创造利益又绝对符合唯利主义的本质可悲的地方在于，我们根本看不到天朝人做事儿的本质有过哪怕一丝改变的迹象，还是老样子甚至还不如从前，你十几年前的跟制造你敢比吗？？那老国货把现在所谓的新产品活活甩出几条街来，因为什么？？国情越来越差，社会环境越来越差，人性怎么可能好呢？？在欧美乃至日本，规划出长久的战略目标并且实践它，是再正常不过的自然现象，但是如果是在中国，你这么干必然导致短期内收不到什么成效，外界的恶评一来，你自己真心扛不住，扛住之后做强做大的，在外国人眼里再正常不过的事儿到了天朝，你就直接成了超世之杰，立刻能被捧成最接近神的男人！实际上到了今天，我们依旧能看到一个很矛盾的现象，在我们频繁使用欧美乃至日本产品的同时，我们依旧在嘲笑着外国人的愚钝和固执，总瞧着那些人真心的头脑简单四肢发达，简直跟精干的中国人完全断档了，可是就是这些总是被嘲笑的外国人，改变了世界成为了国家的主人世界的主人，而中国依旧还是个落后国家，中国人依旧还是个为国家机器服务的P民，中国无非还是一个没有贴标签的奴役制国家！
2楼 15:04&|
此文说的太对了 中国人就是三流货自用 欺骗自己人 唯利是图倒不是事儿 主要是人太自私了 唉 人不是一般的自私和冷漠 特别是自私这一点 我深受其害 二流货港澳台 一流货出口
3楼 00:17&|
登录百度帐号我的游戏推荐游戏
后查看最近玩过的游戏
内&&容:使用签名档&&
想了解更多关于 ”驹之焰“的信息,请&或“中国产品信得过”——外国人眼里的“中国制造”
15:39:34 来源: (北京)
新华网北京7月26日电近年来，“中国制造”已成为欧洲人喜欢谈论的话题。中国《人民日报》26日发表题为《外国人眼里的“中国制造”》的文章，分别介绍了英国人和德国人对“中国制造”产品的认可和好评。
报道说，在英国伦敦北部一家专卖中国、日本和韩国食品的超市“东方城”里，几位当地顾客都表示：“我们经常来这里买东西，中国食品信得过。”
小学教师布莱恩说：“我经常来这家‘东方城’，买一些食品回家，感觉中国食品很好，从来没有遇到过质量上的问题。我喜欢中国食品，家人也很喜欢。除了自己在家里做，我们还常去中国饭馆，一个月至少要去一两回。”
布莱恩还表示，他家里的许多东西都是“中国制造”，从餐具、厨具、玩具到电器等都有，价格便宜，质量也不错，“我觉得中国产品信得过”。
报道援引搞艺术的艾迪的话说，现在英国市场上出售的中国产品越来越多，服装、电器、家庭用品都有中国货，英国人生活中每天都离不开“中国制造”。
报道介绍说，德国老太太菲舍对中国人非常友善，结交了不少中国朋友。她说：“中国产品好得很。我家里就有许多东西是‘中国制造’。”她说，中国产品价廉物美，在德国随处可见，尤其是服装。如今，不少欧美知名品牌也都产自中国，这说明这些企业信得过“中国制造”的质量。
报道说，无论到哪个商场，德国人在购买德国品牌的产品时，已越来越不在乎是“中国制造”还是“德国制造”，因为德国的不少企业早已全球化，产品来自全球各地。
萨比纳是专门跑经济新闻的德国记者，她常常批评德国媒体关于中国产品的负面报道。萨比纳说，“我本人去过中国，对中国产品质量有切身体会”。她妈妈到中国旅游时买了一些中国产品，质量很好。她认为，在德国商场买到的标有“中国制造”的知名品牌产品，质量一点儿都不差。
（来源：新华网）
本文来源：
我来评两句
网易通行证：
网易新闻今日推荐
今天网友最关心的新闻
(评1426条)
——女子读完大学后“回炉”读初中
——70后女子网上炫富狂骂80后、90后
——司机撞死男童后逃逸 被抓还嘴硬
——大学女老师银行大厅当众脱衣 考验众人承受能力
——"中国最大烂尾楼"复活 更名中石化大厦
——男子持刀爬上楼顶卖身 叫价50万
网易公司版权所有查看: 2915|回复: 50
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
本帖最后由 赫赫铭儿0 于
16:03 编辑
中国的廉价商品在全世界遭到记恨，全球化让世界处于一场无情的竞争洪流，在这场洪流中许多人失去了原有的利益，在竞争中的前进者中国因为侵犯了N多人的既得利益而受到他们的抨击。这不但在发达国家，在发展国家也是同样如此，而且我们很难看多全世界的工人阶级进行跨国界的联合，因为彼此的利益是矛盾的，因为彼此的利益矛盾来自于各个国家的产业竞争。
Dear Editor
Years ago South Africa signed its trade agreement with China and suddenly shops were filled with affordable clothing. Our economy was growing so most people had a little extra to spend and there was so much variety of affordable clothing. It was fantastic!
A few years later and the picture is a very different one! As everyone flocked to buy the cheaper alternatives, stores stopped stocking the more expensive local products. This resulted in massive job losses in our local textile industry.
As demand for cheap imports grew so the shops reduced the number of local products that they stocked. Now, with our local textile industry being almost non-existent and no longer competing with China the prices of clothing are increasing and increasing. We are now paying the equivalent of what local products would cost - the only difference is that we are getting less variety (all the shops stock the same stuff) and poorer quality.
The benefits that we reaped from trading with China have disappeared and all that remains are a bunch of empty factories, thousands of skilled people that are unemployed and consistent price hikes and clothes that don’t actually fit any body!
With our factories closed retailers are at the mercy of China, a country that is colonising the world with inferior quality. We should we frown on the ways they treat their own people with their labour laws etc, how could we have thought that they would treat a foreign country with more respect?
The scary thing is that as prices rise, retailers sell less and will eventually make cost cutting decisions that will result in more job losses.
I guess poverty is also made in China.
尊敬的编辑
数年前，南非和中国签署贸易协定，转眼间大小商铺就充斥着价美物廉的服装。我们的经济有待成长，而人们大都喜欢铺张浪费，还好这里有各种各样的廉价服装。一切都美妙极了！
过了几年，情况就完全不同了！人们成群结队地去购买廉价的替代品（指中国货），商铺停止进购比较贵的本地商品。这样一来，我们当地的纺织工业萎靡不振，流失了大量工作岗位。
廉价的进口商品供不应求，本地商品的供应量持续走低。而现在，我们当地的纺织工业已经名存实亡，中国在价格战上完胜我们，逐步地蚕食整个市场。如果我们支付相同的价格来购买本地商品——唯一的区别是，我们只能得到式样单一（所有的商品进购的都是同样的款式）和低劣的质量。
我们与中国进行的贸易没有丝毫利益，留给我们的只有空旷的工厂，大量熟练工人丢了饭碗，物价上涨，还有就是衣服并不合身！
在中国的操控下，我们的工厂失去了零售商，中国正在用质量低劣（的商品）殖民整个世界。我们应该有所警觉，我们对他们用劳工法等来统治自己的人民表示不满，又如何能寄希望于他们会善待外国呢？
令人担忧的是价格飞涨，消费减缩和零售减少最终会促使成本的降低，这样一来又会导致更多的失业问题。
我想（我们的）贫困应该是中国酿成的吧。
载入中......
鼓励积极发帖讨论
总评分:&经验 + 40&
论坛币 + 40&
学术水平 + 1&
热心指数 + 1&
信用等级 + 1&
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
--------------------------------------------------
1、Reaperman
Well Spotted....... We are seeing it in the other industries also. I am in the Mining industry and believe me, its getting hectic!
说得好…我们的其他行业也是如此。我在采矿业工作，相信我，形势日益严峻。
-----------------------------------------------------
Good Article, however &Poverty - made in China.. Perfected by the ANC.&
百年难得一见的好文章，然而贫困虽然是中国导致的，但始作俑者是南非国民大会（ANC）。
-------------------------------------------------------
3、onthefence
I too was brainwashed many years ago..by the NP and the SADF.....one day you will see the light&&
这些年我也被国家党和南非防御力量洗脑了…总有一天你会醒悟的
--------------------------------------------
5、Trackless
The danger is not the invasion...but the total disregard for DME law'S, mining regulations, and labor laws. This is not a statement.. IT IS A FACT!!! The other danger is that the Chinese now pay certain Companies to 'shut their eyes&....and these are Companies belonging to SA citizens!! all for the money!!! Go tot the Northern Cape and go see what is happening in and around Kathu area!!!
真正的危险不是入侵…而是对DME（没查到这个缩写）法规、采矿规程和劳工法的忽视。这不是陈述报告，这是事实！！另一个危险是中国人正在买通某些公司，让他们‘视而不见’…而这些公司是属于南非人民的！！所有的财富！！去北开普敦和Kathu周围看看到底发生了什么！！
-----------------------------------------------------
Even if we become protectionist we will still be poor. It is not china's fault that our people are uneducated and provide little value in the work they do. We need to have a hard look at ourselves. We are a small country. We need to inventive in what we do, instead of doing stuff that other people can do better, faster and cheaper.
即便采取贸易保护措施，我们仍然很穷。这并不是中国的错，我们的人民缺少教育，在工作岗位上不能创造财富。我们需要仔细地审视自己。我们是一个小国。我们需要因地制宜，而不是做那些别人可以做的更好、更快、更便宜的东西。
--------------------------------------------------------
7、Jacques Jones
so true. the chinese is out to create a monopoly in the world market. there is no country that can compete with them
没错。中国人企图垄断世界市场。没有国家可以与他们竞争。
-------------------------------------------
IF they played fair then any well run country could compete with them. They artificially keep their currency low to make exports cheap. They raise the barriers to entry into their own market , while if you don't allow them to enter your market you feel diplomatic pressure. They fund the lifestyles of African dictators then rape the country of its resources to make the African people suffer even more.
（回复7号评论）如果他们公平竞赛，任何运转良好的国家都可以与他们一争高下。他们人为地保持低汇率来使出口商品变得廉价。他们提高进入自己市场的壁垒，如果你不让他们进入自己的市场，就会面临外交上的压力。他们资助非洲的独裁者，然后掠夺该国的资源，使非洲人民遭受从未有之的苦难。
-------------------------------------------------------
9、dave_23
'No country that can compete with them' - the Chinese do not possess mystical powers that make their products so affordable. They are just very good at producing products competitively. But there is nothing mystical about it. You have two choices:
1. Be sour grapes and give up, assuming it's impossible to ever compete
2. Simply study why they are more competitive, and try where possible to be likewise be more competitive at production ourselves
（回复7号评论）‘没有国家可以与他们竞争’——中国并没有运用神秘的力量使自己的商品变得物美价廉。他们只是精于商品制造，有着良好的竞争力。这没什么神秘的。你有两个选择：
1、做一个酸葡萄并且放弃（购买中国货），假设根本无法与之竞争。
2、仅仅研究为什么他们具有竞争力，然后使我们的商品也变成那样。
----------------------------------------------------------------
All the local Telco's are now buying equipment from a Chinese manufacturer - in their building in Sandton they only employ people from China and a few locals. What happened to BEE ? How do they get around that ? The German and Swedish manufacturers that are losing business to them used to employ a few hundred South Africans - why does nobody from Government investigate this ?
所有的本地电话公司都从中国制造商那里购买设备——桑顿的大楼里，他们只雇佣来中国人和少量的本地人。BEE到底发生了什么？他们如何应对？德国和瑞典的制造商们丢掉了生意，他们曾雇佣了几百名南非人——为什么ZF不来调查此事？
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
11、Reaperman
as a matter of info - Chinese residents in SA enjoys the same classification as blacks in this country. About 18 months ago they were re-classified and hence a chinese foreign national have more rights in South africa than a white person born here....go figure. In other words, by employing Chinese you can achieve your AA/BEE targets...sick really!
（回复10号评论）真实的情况是——南非的中国居民享受着黑人的同等待遇（南非黑人的社会地位貌似比较高）。大约18个月以前，他们被重新分类，从此中国人在南非的权利比土生土长的白人更多…换言之，通过雇佣中国人，你才能达到AA/BEE的目标…荒唐之极！
-----------------------------------------------
12、sabc10
Perhaps its just that the chinese (asian) culture, in general, evolves. That they just regaining their place in civilisation which. they had for 1800+years.
或许这就是中国（亚洲）的文化，通常都是在不断地进化。他们只想重新归位，为了曾经延续了1800多年的文明。
-------------------------------------------------------
13、alicia
So painfully true....your article. There are so many homes where previous workers and their children are now suffering daily. And yet more and more clothing factories close down. But bet your bottom Dollar, there are those with greasy, grubby hands and smiling faces, counting the dirty money they were given as hand outs to look the other way.
你的文章…真实的让人蛋疼。很多家庭以前都是工人，现在他们的孩子每天遭受着磨难。然而，越来越多的服装工厂倒闭。赌上你兜里的最后一分钱，那些油腻而又肮脏的双手，笑意盈盈地数着龌龊的钞票，当被要求拿出一部分时，他们就顾左右而言他。
------------------------------------------------------------
The irony is that the very people who are now without jobs were those who bought the cheap Chinese imports to start with. Our workers need to find another way to fight this phenomenon. I do support a living wage, but with that you also HAVE to have improved productivity. If you can only make a single garment in the time that the Chinese can make 2 (even in their shocking conditions and sweat shops) then their garments will always be cheaper. The unions need to demand better productivity from their members at the same time as demanding higher wages. The 2 always have to go hand in hand or you price yourself out of the market.
（回复13号评论）具有讽刺意味的是，每一个失去工作的人都是以购买廉价的中国商品为开始的。我们的工人需要另辟蹊径来制止这种现象。我全力支持最低生活工资，但是你们也必须提高生产效率。在相同的时间内，如果我们做一件衣服，中国人可以做两件（甚至是在他们令人震惊的环境和血汗工厂里），那么他们的衣服就会更便宜。工会需要让他们的成员提高生产率，然后再谈薪水问题。两者必须同时进行，否则你的定价就会失去市场。
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank You ! I have been saying this for months and people have attacked me as &anti - chinese& on this very site. The fact is that they don't give a damn about you and we have made it far too easy to let them come in here and rape the country. Go to the South of Joburg and see how many &China Malls& there are - how many local clothing and textile factories have closed because of those ? Look at companies like Galencia that build townhouses in Midrand where even the door frame is imported from China - why can't they use local suppliers ? And then you see more and more Chinese executives driving around Joburg in luxury cars while locals are facing a bleak unemployed future - WAKE UP ANC !! Why are you allowing this to happen ? Since the Chinese don't play fair ( eg. artificially low currency to facilitate cheap exports ) we need to impose quotas in Chinese imports into SA.
谢谢！我曾经说过，几个月来人们会把我视为‘反华分子’而加以攻击。事实上，他们对你毫不在乎，我们搬起石头砸自己的脚，让他们太轻易地进来并且掠夺我们的国家。约翰内斯堡的南部到处林立着‘中国商城’，有多少本地的服装和纺织工业因此而倒闭？像Galencia这样的公司，建造在Midrand别墅的门框也是从中国进口的，为什么不使用本地产品呢？然后你就会看到越来越多的中国高管开着豪车在约翰内斯堡兜风的同时，本地人正面临着毫无希冀的没有工作的未来。醒醒吧，南非国民大会！！为什么你们作壁上观，毫无作为？中国人不按规则出牌（比如人为地控制汇率来刺激出口），我们需要对进入南非的中国商品课以重税。
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is that companies like Foschini etc are importing there goods, charging the world for it because you are buying it at FOSCHINI but the quality is such crap. take time to look at the stitching etc. I try not to buy &made in china& if I can possibly help it.
（回复15号评论）问题是像Foschini这样的公司都在进口商品，他们掌控着一切。你只能从Foschini去购买，而质量都奇差无比。花点时间去看看针脚等（细微之处）。如果我有能力，就不会去买‘中国制造’。
------------------------------------------------------------
17、Libertador
Free Market Capitalism is a b!tch when the markets don't move in your favour, yes.
（回复15号评论）如果己方没有受益，资本主义自由市场就是狗屎，没错。
-----------------------------------------------------------
18、Hope777
Spot on! We are in the steel manufacturing industry and are being killed with cheap imports. The prices their products land in SA is half ours, we can not even buy the raw material for the same price, indicating a certain subsidy on the Chinese side. Why is local industry not being protected by high import duties. Yes the local consumer pay more, but at least we have our own people employed that in turn feed the local economy through taxes and spendable income!! Want to create work, create factories processing our own raw material and protect them from cheap imports through high import duties, the same that applies to the motor manufacturing industry.
说得好！我们的钢铁工业正在被廉价的进口商品谋杀。他们的商品价格比我们便宜一半，我们甚至不能用相同的价格来购买原材料，中方一定是有某种补贴。为什么本地商品不能被高额的进口税所保护。当地的消费者要增加开销，但至少我们可以雇佣自己的工人，通过税收和可支配收入反过来供养当地经济！！要想增加工作岗位，开设工厂加工自己的原材料，以及通过高关税来避免廉价商品的冲击，汽车制造业也同样适用。
---------------------------------------------------
19、Tolerant
We should rather try to compete by lowering labour costs. Smaller pay is better than no pay.
（回复18号评论）我们应该用更低的人工成本来与之竞争。报酬少点总好过一文不名。
------------------------------------------------------
Chinese products are cheaper precisely BECAUSE the quality is so bad. Local markets have to give better quality in order to retain the market. You may find Chana cars are cheaper, but they dont eliminate the VW's and Toyotas because they simply cannot compete on a quality level - and those VW's and Toyota's are EXPORTED as well, because the quality is not allowed to deteriorate. Our unions need to stop demanding higher and higher wages for less and less work. They need to realise that to compete in an open, global market, you have to be the BEST at a reasonable rate. Until our labour market realises this, it is a lost cause fighting against cheap Chinese imports. But if mines/industry do not realise that they are buying inferior quality spares and machinery, I dont hold out much hope. They will break down and we will all lose in the end.
（回复18号评论）中国货之所以便宜，是因为质量很差。本地市场必须提高质量来保有市场。你可能觉得长安汽车更便宜，但他们不会拒绝大众和丰田，因为他们在质量上无法与之相提并论。大众和丰田车也同样用于出口，因为质量并不被允许变坏。我们的工会必须停止要求更多的报酬和更少的工作。他们必须认识到自己是在同公开的、全球的市场竞争，必须以合理的速率做到最好。在我们的劳动力市场明白这些之前，与廉价的中国商品进行竞争无疑是自取灭亡。但如果采矿/工业没有认识到，他们仍在购买次品和机械，我不敢抱太大希望。他们终会破产，我们也会失掉一切。
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
21、pop101
Walked through a Chinese shop the other day and saw some really funny product names (as alternatives to the real deal), example: XBOX 360 = ZBOX 360, sony = somy etc. etc Who endorse these imports.
（回复18号评论）前几天路过一家中国商铺，看到了很多好玩的产品名称（作为正牌的替代品），比如：XBox360=ZBox360，Sony=Somy等等。谁同意了这些坑爹货的。
-----------------------------------------------------
22、Zoolie
Whats that old saying now again ahhhh yes ..... penny wise, pound foolish.
那句老话怎么说来着，哦对了…小事聪明，大事糊涂。
--------------------------------------------------
All trade agreements with China need to be reviewed and re-thought. However, we cant only blame them, we need to look at our internal labour policies and the Union intervention (June - July strike seasons). These are the real culprits, because they are the ones who make labour such a prickly pear in industry today. The problem is not about paying a &livable wage&, it's more about the unions with unrealistic demand on business in general and the impact thereof, i.e. businesses closing down or off-shoring because labour too expensive in SA and UNRELIABLE!
所有与中国的贸易协定都需要检讨和重新评估。然而，我们不能仅仅责怪他们，看看我们国内的劳工政策和工会调停（六、七月份的罢工季）。他们才是真正的罪人，因为他们使工人变成了当今工业的刺头。问题并不是支付‘过得去的薪水’，而是工会在商业上不切实际的要求和影响，也就是生意中断或者离岸贸易是因为南非的劳动力太昂贵，而且很不靠谱。
---------------------------------------------------
This comment sums it up nicely. You cannot compete with a giant like China if your labour force is constantly being hiccupped by strikes and union demands.
（回复23号评论）这则评论总结的恰到好处。如果你的劳动力一直被罢工和工会要求所中断，那么就根本无法同中国这样的巨人相抗衡。
--------------------------------------------------
I think you have hit the nail on the head and in the coffin of our local labourers. But yet they are so stupid and uneducated that they listen to every word the Unions dish out to them. Someone needs to tell the labourers that the increase that they go on strike is also an increase to their monthly payment to be a union member. The unions are getting richer but are the workers getting any better. All the strikes leads to a lot of businesses closing because of turnover - that is why the China brand is doing so well in SA. GO FIGURE !!!!!
（回复23号评论）说的很中肯呀，对于我们的本地劳动力尤为重要。可是他们不但愚蠢，而且缺少教育，对于工会言听计从。有些人告诉工人们继续罢工也可以增加薪水，而且还可以成为工会的成员。工会变得更加富有，但工人们只能得到一点汤汤水水。所有的罢工导致大量的生意流失，这也是为什么中国品牌在南非大行其道的原因所在。好好想想吧！！！
-----------------------------------------------------
Labour is as much entitled to protect itself as you 3 are entitled to protect your assets. A living wage implies that families less entitled and fortunate then you can provide the love and financial security that any family deserves. Furthermore, the money earned by a local labourer does not simply vanish, it re-enters our economy when they purchase goods. Civilization itself is threatened when disparities in wealth reach levels witnessed globally. The pyramid is most symbolic of man's hubris & inhumanity yet your conception of mankind celebrates the pyramid with the CEO shareholders and you 3 at the top and the nuisances making, ungrateful subhuman labourers at the bottem. My advise to you 3. Grow a soul.
（回复23、24、25号评论）工人们有权保护进行自我防卫，正如你们有权保护自己的财产。最低生活工资意味着较少的家庭权利和幸福，然后你可以提供给每个家庭应得的爱与财产保护。此外，本地工人挣得的工资并不会凭空消失，当他们购买商品的时候，钱还会重新回到我们的经济当中。当财富差距达到一定水平时，文明自身就会被反噬。金字塔最能体现人类的傲慢和残暴，然而你们的设想是让CEO、股东和你们三个站在金字塔的顶端，而让麻烦制造者、讨厌的非人劳工们处于最底层。我给你们的建议是，洗涤一下心灵吧。
------------------------------------------------
27、dave_23
I see you've been slobbering up Marx. Communism has been tried over and over and failed catastrophically every single time.
（回复26号评论）我想你是垂涎于马克思的共产主义，一次又一次地尝试，却惨遭失败。
--------------------------------------------------------
28、piet.strydom
Trickle down is slow, but it does work, and work very well. It works better if people are willing to make a productive contribution to the economy. Take any measure of living standards, and most people are better of now than 20 years ago on most measures. How many people now have TV, satelite dishes, electricity, running water that they didn't have even 10 years ago. Ah, but it is the government, I hear some people say...
Even if it was the government, they did so by using taxes paid by working individuals and businesses.
Look at any measure you care to, number of hours needed to work for an hour of cooking, or a hour of heating, or to travel 10 km. If it wasn't for aids, even life expectancy would have been better.
（财富的）渗透很慢，但起码还在进行，而且运行良好。如果人们都乐于对经济做出富有成效的贡献，那就最好不过了。无论是衡量哪种生活水平，大多数人过的都比20年前要更好。有多少人现在拥有10年前所没有的电视机、卫星接收器、电器和自来水。但这是官方报告，我听有人说…
即便时出自ZF，他们也在用私人和商业的税收来做这些事情。
看看你所关心的任何数据，需要工作多少小时才可以烹饪一小时或者加热一小时，抑或是10公里的旅行。如果不是因为艾滋，平均寿命应该会更高。
---------------------------------------------------
29、Dougalan
The simple truth is that China is hell-bent on world domination. They have a population of 1.2 billion, are expert hagglers and they have - I'm sorry to say - totally outwitted most countries in Africa with their offers and bribes that have now rebounded on the poor, as Cheryl has so clearly pointed out. And I guess it will continue in SA until there is some honesty in the ANC ranks not to accept profitable deals that sell out South Africans of all races.
事实很简单，中国对于控制世界梦寐以求。他们拥有12亿人口，最擅长讨价还价，他们用提议和贿赂完全蒙蔽了大多数非洲国家，并在穷人身上得到了回报，Cheryl（本文作者，以后还会出现，不再注释）就很明确地指出了这一点。我想南非还会这样下去，除非南非国民大会里的有识之士拒绝有利可图的交易，否则南非就会卖光所有的种族。
------------------------------------------------------
30、Lions Man
I'm sorry to say but they have done the exact same thing in the US... The reason the US is/has experiencing such major job losses is because all the US companies are basing manufacturing in china at the expense of the US job market, so I don't think its only an African problem. It seems like the Europeans have done a better job at safe guarding against this by focussing on highly skilled labour and manufacturing processes that the chinese only wish they could replicate.
（回复29号评论）很抱歉，我要说的是他们在美国也做着同样的事情…美国正在/曾经经历的如此重大的失业问题的原因就是所有美国公司以国内劳动力市场为代价，把制造工厂建在了中国，所以我认为这不仅仅是非洲的麻烦。由于欧洲人对高熟练工人和制造工艺的安全防护，他们的就业问题不大，中国人只能寄希望于他们自毁长城。
----------------------------------------------
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
31、Rammsteen
Agreed Cheryl, It was always going to go this way when our Government started with the trade agreement. Following this - watch for more inferior product from India - and less work opportunities locally.
我同意Cheryl，从我们的政府签署贸易协定开始，这种情况就不可避免。接下来要做的就是，等待来自印度更差的商品和更少的本地就业机会。
-----------------------------------
32、werner.smidt
No, no. The problem lies at home. The fact that local workers go on strike every other month has a lot to do with factories closing. People want million Rand salaries for menial work. The consumer, i.e. your fellow South African has to pay for that increase in the end. It's time to pull up your socks and drop your chin a bit. It's a competitive market.
不，不。问题还是出在自身。事实是本地的工人隔三差五地举行罢工，从而导致工厂倒闭。人们从事着低贱的工作，却妄想百万兰特的薪水 （兰特是南非货币，和人民币的汇率大致相等）。消费者，也就是你的南非同胞们最终将为此买单。是时候振作起来，停止空谈了。这是一个竞争的市场。
----------------------------------------
33、sabc10
I would agree. Worldwide despite the recession first world corporates are making the biggest share of the profits. Its not only china that is competitive. Its IndiA, Brazil, Eastern Europe, Mexico and other emerging markets. Even other african countries like Nigeria is improving their economies. In countries like eg china or brazil it is very competitive.
We have a developing country but managers or directors get salaries that is far greater than any other developing country and in many cases more than first world countries. Services is of poor quality and quantity compared to what we pay.
（回复32号评论）我基本同意。尽管全世界都在衰退，而第一世界则分享着最多的蛋糕。这不仅仅是中国的竞赛，还有印度、巴西、东欧、墨西哥和其他新兴市场。甚至是像尼日利亚这样的非洲国家也在发展经济。而像中国或者巴西这样的国家则具有很强的竞争力。
我们是一个发展中国家，但管理者和董事们拿到的薪水远高于其他发展中国家和一些发达国家。低劣的服务质量和数量与我们付出的毫不相称。
--------------------------------------------
34、werner.smidt
I actually saw the same mentality when I was in the States (in New Mexico specifically) for a couple of months. There, some janitors demand a $40/hour wage with 7 hour shifts because they have large families. . .it is not the responsibility of the employer to take responsibility for your bad decisions. The parallels were striking. They have the audacity to blame &foreigners& for taking &American jobs& . . but really, the foreigners are DOING American jobs. Sound familiar?
（回复33号评论）我在美国（特别是在新墨西哥州）的两个月里也见过这种心态。在新墨西哥，一些门卫要求每小时40美元的薪水和7小时工作制，因为他们的家庭十分庞大…雇主没有义务对你的坏决定负责。然后就是罢工。他们厚颜无耻地指责‘外国人’拿走了‘美国人的工作’…但事实上，外国人正在做着美国人的工作。听起来是不是似曾相识？
--------------------------------------------
35、Ederik
You are right. All the 'Proudly South-African Bok Supporters', check where your Springbok outfits were made! The country making the most of this world cup is China!
你说得对。所有‘傲慢的南非跳羚队支持者们’，看看你们跳羚队的装备是哪里制造的！ （译者注：跳羚队Springbok是南非的一支橄榄球队）充分利用了这届世界杯的国家恰恰是中国！（应该是指去年的南非世界杯）
----------------------------------------------
36、Tolerant
We should also look at our labour costs, it is too high. Even Mr Mandela's newest book were printed in China. I am sure he asked for local quotes, probably too high.
（回复35号评论）我们应该考虑一下自己的劳动力成本，实在是太高了。甚至是曼德拉先生的新书也是在中国印刷的。我相信他询问过当地的报价，可能负担不起。
原创翻译:龙腾网
翻译:病中乃知
--------------------------------------------
37、Proefleser
If these two comments are true - and I have no reason to doubt it - that is indeed shocking.
（回复35、36号评论）如果这两条评论是真的，那么我没有理由怀疑，这太令人吃惊了。
----------------------------------------------
38、JGerber
Agreed! In addition it is not only China that will have this effect on our economy. Overseas 'investment' corporations taking over South Africa is also problematic. Instead of corporate money being’re-invested’ (through jobs, bonuses etc,) to SA employees which in return stimula this money ends up in pockets of a few elite. This, in my opinion, will most likely be used as capital for further world domination / self enrichment opportunities. I would rather buy less, but pay more for a product or local service to secure our children’s economic and employment future and also locally stimulate REAL competition, but I guess I am one of a few.
我同意！此外，不仅是中国影响着我们的经济，海外‘投资’公司掌控南非也是隐患。共同财富的受益者（通过工作、奖金等）本来是南非的雇工，作为回报它们会刺激消费开支，而现在这些钱落入了少数精英的口袋里。我的观点是，这些钱很有可能作为资金被用于进一步支配世界或充实自我的机会。我宁可少买一些，也不愿为产品或本地服务花冤枉钱，以此来保护我们弱不禁风的经济和就业前景，当然也会激发本地真正的竞争力，但是我想我只是少数这样的人而已。
--------------------------------------------------------
Poor quality, poisoned food, cheap imitations, pirating brands and trade marks, dodging tax (have you tried to get a tax invoice at the China market?), cheap labour, child labour, undemocratic politics, and so the list goes on. These are what the Chinese are up to.
if its made in China & I have a local alternative (even at a higher price) I buy local. Food stuff? never buy made in China. Checkers, Woolworths & Edgars all import from China, and this hurts our local economy. The other side of the coin is our local labour and other laws making it extremely difficult for local business to firstly operate productively and secondly be competitive.
质量低劣、有毒食品、便宜的山寨货、盗版品牌和商标、偷税漏税（你在中国的市场开过发票吗？）、廉价劳动力、童工、不民主的政治…名单还有很长。这些都应当由中国人负责。
我有一个简单的购买方针：如果是中国制造，同时又有本地产品可供选择（即便价格高一点），我也会购买。食品？绝不买中国货。Checkers、沃尔沃斯和Edgars（三者都是南非的超市）都从中国进口货物，这对于我们当地的经济不利。另一方面则是我们的劳动力和一些法律对于本地的商业也有义不容辞的责任，首先要有立竿见影的效果，其次是变得有竞争力。
------------------------------------------------------
I was at Clicks a few months back and they were selling Clicks brand chips - on the packet it says &Packaged in South Africa&. Luckily I spotted the box it comes in ( they were still packing the shelves ) and on the box was a Chinese address. Now would you eat something made in China ? Isn't Clicks screwing the public here
（回复39号评论）几个月以前，我在Clicks上班，他们销售的是Clicks牌的薯条，包装上写的是‘产自南非’。我侥幸看到了运进来的箱子（它们仍然被放在架子上），盒子上是一个中文地址。现在你是不是吃了一些产自中国的东东？Clicks欺骗了所有人。
---------------------------------------------------
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
41、Sickly
I don't hear any of you actually thanking the Chinese for reducing our inflation rate significantly. There are two side to this discussion and you have only voiced one side of it. If China can make things cheaper and more efficiently than kudos, the challenge is for us as a country to identify what we have a competitive advantage in (cue a couple of idiots reading this to make a couple of stupid comments like we're really good at corruption etc etc).
事实上，我没有听到你说过任何感激的话，至少中国人帮助我们降低了通货膨胀。这个讨论有两个方面，而你只说出了其中一面。如果中国人可以生产出比名声更便宜更有效率的商品，对于我们国家来说，这是一个检验我们的竞争优势的挑战。（一些白痴读到了这些，然后发表了一些诸如‘实际上我们对贪污很在行’等白痴评论）
--------------------------------------------
42、sabc10
I agree. The americans and other nations already realise this. They created the &free market & principles. Countries like china are buying south african &products& and preventing south africa from getting into a depression.
（回复41号评论）我同意。美国和其它国家早已领悟。他们创建了‘自由市场’的法则。像中国这样的国家购买南非的‘商品’，并且防止陷入衰退。
---------------------------------------------------
We make cars , for example , but they won't allow you to export into their market. They tip the scales in their favour
（回复41号评论）比如说，我们制造了汽车，但他们不允许你出口到他们的市场。他们把天平倾斜到了自己一方。
-----------------------------------------------------
44、john_jones
You call yourself a South African Born Chinese ( hence the sabc ) but you stick up for China regardless. If you are a South African you should stick up first and foremost for South Africa. And you can still be proud of your heritage at the same time. China does not buy South African ' products' at all. I have been shopping in quite a few Chinese Supermarkets and yet to see any South African products on sale anywhere. It buys South African resources. Which I have no problem with - so does the US and Germany and the UK etc etc but Cheryl's point and the point of most people here is that the relationship between China and South Africa is becoming too one sided. Heads China wins Tails South Africa loses. This situation needs to be recognized and addressed before the relationship sours irrevocably.
（回复42号评论）你自称是一名在南非长大的中国人，而你却在为中国辩护。如果你是一名南非人，就应该首先为南非着想。同时，你也可以为自己的传统而感到骄傲。中国根本就没有购买南非的商品。我曾经光顾过非常多的中国超市，只能看到很少的南非货。它们购买了南非的资源。这些我没有意见，美国、德国以及英国等国也是这么做的。但Cheryl和大多数人的观点是中国和南非的关系呈一边倒的趋势。中国是赢家正面朝上，南非是输家背面朝下（这句话应该是掷硬币之类的说法）。在关系无可避免地变坏之前，这种情形需要被重新认知和处理。
------------------------------------------------
45、Hope777
Labour cost is only a portion of your total manufacturing cost. The big price difference between locally manufactured goods and the cheap imports is much more than the labour factor. Even if labour is 100% more effective will you still not be able to compete. Chinese products are cheaper due to their government supporting their manufacturing industry through export subsidies, cheap factories, lower taxes, etc. Yes labour need to be more effective, but without government support/protection local industry will be killed off and with it work opportunities!
劳动力成本只是制造成本的一部分。本地的制成品和廉价的进口商品的价差远大于劳动力因素。即便让劳动力提高100%的效率也很难与之竞争。中国的产品之所以便宜，是因为他们的ZF通过出口补贴、廉价的车间、较低的税率等等来扶植他们的制造业。没错，劳动力需要提高效率，但是没有ZF的支持和保护，本地产业很难存活，工作机会也就无从谈起！
------------------------------------------------
46、googling
We are getting the benefit of cheaper products. Unfortunately, with globalisation we are playing in the big league and our costs are not competitive. If they can buy raw materials from us, manufacture the product and ship it back and sell it at a price lower than our cost, then it says something about our competitiveness.
我们从廉价的商品中获得好处。不幸的是，随着全球化的到来，我们加入了这个联盟，而我们的成本没有竞争力。如果他们可以从我们这里购买原材料，制成产品然后再运回来，以低于我们成本的价格销售，然后就开始拿我们的竞争力来说事。
-----------------------------------------------------------
47、Libertador
Strange how all the ambassadors of the &Free-Market& have so little to say when the markets move in their favour.... And have so much to say, when it moves against...
The trade imbalance between South Africa and China has come about not only because the Chinese have learnt how to make manufactured goods at very high quality and very low cost but also because we haven't moved up the value chain adequately whilst they have been doing this.
Too much of our resources and too many of our brightest individuals have gone into the financial services sector, pursuing quick bucks ponzi wealth schemes.
奇怪的是，当市场属于他们时，所有‘自由市场’的代言人们都笑而不语…而当市场开始朝另一侧倾斜时，每个人都喋喋不休牢骚满腹…
南非和中国之间贸易不平衡的产生不仅是因为中国已经学会了如何制造物美价廉的商品，还因为我们没有充分地提升价值链，而他们已经做完了这些。
我们的很多资源和事业有成的精英们对于金融服务业趋之若鹜，从事于来钱快的庞氏骗局。 （译者注：庞氏骗局是指骗人向虚设的企业投资，以后来投资者的钱作为快速盈利付给最初投资者以诱使更多人上当。）
----------------------------------------------------
48、zackie
the chinese are not interested in quality only quantity..they make cheap knock offs
（回复47号评论）中国人只对数量感兴趣，而非质量，他们用价格来击倒一切。
原创翻译:龙腾网
翻译:病中乃知
------------------------------------
49、dave_23
This &letter& is such an obvious fake plant by the local textile industry. Sour grapes.
Here's a hint, Cheryl: The local textile industry would be BOOMING, with loads of local job creation, if you were simply more competitive. There is a reason we buy goods from China, and it's not because artificial &agreements& were &signed& - it's because the Chinese make the product cheaper. All you need to do to get all that wonderful business, is also make your products more affordable. It's really that simple.
The fact that it's cheaper to have our clothes made on a different continent on the opposite side of the planet and then shipped tens of thousands of kilometers, than to just make them locally, is a damning indictment of just how uncompetitive our local textile industry is.
很明显，这封‘信’是当地纺织业伪造的。酸葡萄心理。
Cheryl这是一种暗示：如果我们可以更具竞争力，当地的纺织业本也可以兴旺发达，创造大量的工作岗位，这也是我们为什么要购买中国货的原因，并不是因为‘签订’了伪造的‘协定’，而是中国人使得商品变得更廉价。你们也需要做到这种程度，让你们的产品在可承受的范围之内。就是这么简单。
事实是，产自地球另一边不同的大陆的衣服，在用船运送数万公里之后，也比当地产的便宜。我们当地的纺织工业的竞争力究竟如何，从此可见一斑。
---------------------------------------------------
50、patrickb
Great letter!
Must however also blame our ridiculous labour laws for worsening this problem.
这封信写的很好！不管怎么说，我们荒谬的劳工法也难辞其咎，它使问题变得更糟。
----------------------------------------------
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
51、postmanpat
I see a major flaw in Chinese products the majority are rubbish they are of such inferior quality its scary yet we consumers are insistent on buying them. We really need to wake up and stop buying this stuff. If we the consumer didnt buy them then shops would stop selling The consumer actually hold the solution and we control with our buying power. Good article.
我发现中国产品最大的问题就是大多数都是垃圾，质量极其低下，使用时也要提心吊胆，而我们的消费者仍然坚持购买他们。我们需要反省，停止购买这些东西。如果我们的消费者不买中国货，那么商铺也会停止销售。彻底解决了消费的问题，我们也就能控制购买力了。百年难得一见的好文章啊。
----------------------------------------
it starts at home - buy made in south africa, and encourage others to do. When our organisation makes tshirts we use local factories - it costs R80/tshirt including printing of the logo - and we know we have done our bit for local employment.
问题出在我们自身，购买南非货，鼓励别人也这样做。当我们用本地的工厂生产出成本为80兰特的T恤，包括logo的印刷时，我们就可以为当地的工人做点什么了。
------------------------------------------------
I went to Woolworths on Sunday to buy crockery. Picked up a pack, MADE IN CHINA, put it back on the shelf and walked out. Why can companies like Woolworths not support the local manufacturers. Our people need food and jobs. Charity begins at home.
星期天我去沃尔沃斯购买餐具。拿起包装一看，中国制造，又把它放回了货架，然后径直离开了。为什么像沃尔沃斯这样的公司不采购本地的产品呢。我们的人民需要食物和工作。不扫一屋，何以扫天下。（原文是仁爱始于家）
-------------------------------------------------------
54、PickBadballie
China's policy of world domination through people export and the active destruction of economies has come to pass, Pity the ANC could have led this country from strength to strength, instead they sold us out to pay their struggle debts to communist concerns. This is only the beginning, remember that Chinese Immigrants are classified as Blacks by the ANC and are therefor entitled to grants and assistance that are not even available to indigenous South Africans.
中国支配世界的政策是通过输出人口和摧毁经济来实现的，真是可惜了南非国民大会（ANC）这帮脑残，他们本可以让这个国家变得越来越强大，却为了彼此竞争而把我们作为抵押卖给了共产党。这才只是个开始，别忘了中国移民被南非国民大会归类于黑人，因此他们享有南非的本地人都没有补助和津贴。
--------------------------------------------------------
Some people cannot afford the more expensive items, and for them Chinese items represent value. I do however think there is an onus on people who can afford to avoid purchasing Chinese imports and rather selecting a local or alternatively sourced item, to then do so. If one can afford to not buy Chinese then dont.
有些人负担不起昂贵的商品，而中国货价超所值。无论如何，我认为让人们不用购买中国货，而可以负担得起本地或者原产商品是一种责任所在，希望能够这么做。如果每个人都能负担得起，那么他们也不会购买中国货。
----------------------------------------------------------
56、allows
Have you been to Woolworths lately? They sell &made in China& clothing but still at high Woolies prices. They are ripping us off - pun intended. The clothes rip after a couple of wears. Poor poor quality but still high high prices.
你最近去过沃尔沃斯吗？他们销售‘中国’制造的衣服，但价格还是比Woolies要高。他们欺骗了我们。衣服穿上几次就会开缝。质量差的不能再差，而价格高的不能再高。
------------------------------------------------------------
57、 Tieneke
I live in a very small town. We have no less than 12 Chinese shops, selling the same BS. Thats not all. They exploit the workers. Let them sign contracts to work for R150 a week. Take it or leave. And the local Labor office will NEVER pay them a visit either.......They are prepared to pay double the rent for a premises, putting local people at a disadvantage. How they survive is just a million dollar question. What were they thinking making a deal with the Chinese????
我居住在一个小镇上。我们这里的中国商铺至少有12家，销售着相同的垃圾。这还不是全部。他们剥削工人，让他们在每周只有150兰特的劳动合同上签字。要么接受，要么走人。当地的劳工局从来不进行调查走访…他们准备支付双倍的租金，将当地人置于不利的地位。他们将要如何生存，这是一个严峻的问题。他们在思考需要同中国人做出哪些妥协？？？
---------------------------------------------------------------
58、Tolerant
It is difficult but a low paying job is better than nothing. (I think) Another alternative is to move to the city, but that also costs money.
（回复57号评论）虽然很困难，但工资低一些总比没有强。（我认为）另一种选择就是移居到城市，但开销很大。
----------------------------------------------
59、Libertador
A close scrutiny of China’s bilateral trade figures shows that China runs trade surplus with much of the developed nations and a trade deficit with many of the (resource rich) developing nations, thereby passing its huge trade surplus competitiveness to certain parts of the developing world, down the value chain.
1st time in the history of the world, a nation has been singled out for being competitive (or manipulative) in having a sustainable competitive edge in manufacturing practices, due to an unending supply of cheap labour. One may cite the example of Japan and the Plaza Accord of 1985.
However China isn’t Japan. China is ten-times bigger than Japan when it comes to population. Japan’s cheap labour advantage didn’t sustain long, albeit its process and technical innovations advantage has sustained to a certain extent.
If a company operates with less margin, is it a crime? If Chinese exporters operate on razor-thin margins, they should be praised for that.
In a nutshell, China’s trade practices might have worked against the interests of a few (domestic manufacturing employment elsewhere, profitability of firms elsewhere), but it has simultaneously resulted in benefiting much of the world as vast majority of the world could afford many of these Chinese-made products for the 1st time (which forced competition to cut costs also), erstwhile reserved for the rich, at costs within their reach.
仔细审视中国的双边贸易指标就会发现，他们与大多数发达国家贸易是顺差，与大多数发展（物产丰富）中国家贸易是逆差。因此他们把巨大贸易顺差转移到发展中国家一部分，以此来降低价值链。
世界历史上第一次由于充足的廉价劳动力而在制造标准上具有可持续的竞争优势的国家早已有之。日本和1985年的广场协定就是一个很好的例子。
然而，中国不同于日本。就人口而言，中国比日本大十倍。日本廉价劳工的优势没有维持多久，尽管它在流程和技术创新方面还有一定的优势。
如果一个公司的运行没有利润来源，这是犯罪吧？如果中国的出口商只能获得极其微薄的利润，他们也应该受到褒扬。
简单地说，中国的贸易制度违背了某些人（其他国家的国内制造业工人和其它公司的收益）的利益，与此同时，世界绝大部分
为了购买这些中国货有史以来第一次得到了补助的资格（被动的竞争也降低了成本），以往为富人量身定制的（商品）价格也定在他们所能及的范围之内。
-------------------------------------------------------
The trade agreement was established to hurt business in SA, to take it out the hands of the Whites, Too many jobs were lost, It was not a good move, as the desired results weren't achieved!
贸易协定的签订损害了南非的商业，接过了白人的旗帜，大量工作流失，这不是什么好事，而预期的结果仍未实现！
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
61、zackie
poverty is made in china but supported by the anc with the unions and strict labour laws
贫困是中国酿造的，但南非国民大会伙同工会和劳工法则在背后给予支持。
---------------------------------------------------------
62、zackie
my dad started a shoe factory in SA in 1990 but closed after 95 due to unions demands and huge volume of illegal imports flooding SA and then sold on by the informal traders
1990年，我爸爸在南非开办了一家鞋厂，95年因为工会的要求和大量走私货充斥南非而关闭，然后就做起了日常贸易。
------------------------------------------------
So right, but then are we really surprised? SA is becoming an expert at self destruction. We weaken ourselves and strengthen other nations coz we are too blind to see the benefit of working together to build a strong nation
说的没错，但我们真的很惊讶吗？南非正在变得擅长于自我破坏。我们自伤元气，喂饱了其他国家， 我们对联合起来建立一个强大的国家而带来的利益熟视无睹。
--------------------------------------------------
It is worth noting that a huge amount of CHina's success is due to the fact they came into the mass-production industries much later than other countries with a workforce that was decades behind other countries in wages. This has given China a great advantage, they can buy technology and pay people 100 dollars instead of 3000 dollars, so no surprise they are super-competitive. However this will cause them problems down the line, with a population like theirs, any social projects are hugely expensive to fund and wages will need to come more into line with international norms. It's a paradise for them now, but it wont last for ever, they could in time be sitting on huge problems of their own. They are in the luxurious position of not really having to take into account the opinions, feelings and living conditions of 70% of their population - with no repercussions whatsoever.
中国取得再多的成功也没有任何价值，因为他们迟于其他国家进入劳动密集型产业，劳动力的薪水落后于其他国家长达几十年之久。这是中国的巨大优势，他们可以购买技术，支付给人们100美元而不是3000美元，所以不要惊异于他们超强的竞争力。然而这样一来也会催生很多问题，像他们这样的人口基数，任何社会工程的投资和薪水都是一笔不菲的开销，他们需要与国际标准进一步接轨。现在对于他们而言是天堂，但不会永远这样，他们自身有着诸多的症结。他们身居庙堂之高，没有必要考虑70%人口的看法、感受和居住环境，也不会做出任何回应。
奖励积极上传好的资料
总评分:&经验 + 20&
论坛币 + 20&
学术水平 + 1&
热心指数 + 1&
信用等级 + 1&
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
中国网民大吐槽：
你们的贫困------懒惰制造
只出一分力就想拿十分的钱，谁不想啊，中国人也不是傻子！但中国人很实际明白一个道理，不做事谁给你啊，你当天上真会掉馅饼啊
雇佣更廉价勤奋的员工不是理所当然的吗！你们黑人（其实白人也一个鸟样）太不切实际了，又想高福利，又想不做事，找不到工作就埋怨别人是别人的错！享受高福利不要说你南非不可能，就看看明煮的希腊。意大利也吃不消，快完蛋了（说白了福利就是大锅饭，个个都不工作，就等着喝西北风吧，看希腊终于等到喝风的机会了）
外国人总是说中国人抢走他们的工作，从来不想一下失去工作的真正原因，现实中中国人要求更实际只要满足基本条件就愿意工作了，而外国人把自己想得太高级（其是就一自以为是的SB）要求太高，自然难以满足，自然没人要啊。
这是竞争的世界，失败自然是找自己的原因，没道理TM勤奋工作的人，还要被懒虫骂，这个什么狗屁道理，
记得100多年前，某些国家是通过战争打开我们的国门，向我们倾销大量廉价的商品，让中国大量手工业者失业，造成了严重的社会问题，最终出现分裂的危机，如今我们用他们制定的规则，不用战争就可以这样倾销。正所谓，出来混，迟早要还的。
一.中国人勤劳，尽管是被逼的，谁都知道不干活没饭吃，富二代除外。
二.南非人懒惰，中国过去搞建筑还要自带工人，隔三差五搞个罢工，还要拿工资。
三.中国ZF作为强有力后盾，在“走出去”国家战略下，补贴和退税成为强有力武器。
中国的特色资本主义推进的太快了，这个速度在过10-20年可能很多产业都会垄断，这是一个非常可怕的事情。希望国家能够在未来把重心挪到国内，重点改善国内百姓的生存条件。我不希望看到世界各国都把中国当成威胁，然后第三次世界大战爆发。这让我的P民为了祖国的崛起，牺牲了自己的同时，还承担不必要的风险。一点好日子都没过上。
一直以来我就觉得非洲人压根就是这幅鸟样，而我对大量涌入中国的非洲人感到很不乐观，我们早就应该作出限制，但问题是总有圣母说这TM是种族歧视，什么人类起源于非洲大陆。我想这种人是不是应该跟在黑人背后享受硬又黑呢
中国工会不在中国工人手里，以国家垄断的方式向世界倾销，别的国家有工会维护工人利益，而中国的工会鸟事不干，想彻底击败中国，只有一种方法，用更邪恶的制度，奴隶模式，以超低的生存成本击垮中国，以邪恶制邪恶，以毒攻毒
阅读权限28威望0 级论坛币5898 个学术水平178 点热心指数149 点信用等级139 点经验9878 点帖子824精华在线时间24 小时注册时间最后登录
积分 1082, 距离下一级还需 293 积分
权限: 自定义头衔, 签名中使用图片, 隐身
道具: 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 热点灯, 雷鸣之声, 涂鸦板, 金钱卡, 显身卡, 匿名卡, 抢沙发下一级可获得
权限: 设置帖子权限道具: 提升卡
购买后可立即获得
权限: 隐身
道具: 金钱卡, 雷鸣之声, 彩虹炫, 雷达卡, 涂鸦板, 热点灯
我居住在一个小镇上。我们这里的中国商铺至少有12家，销售着相同的垃圾。这还不是全部。他们剥削工人，让他们在每周只有150兰特的劳动合同上签字。要么接受，要么走人。当地的劳工局从来不进行调查走访…他们准备支付双倍的租金，将当地人置于不利的地位。他们将要如何生存，这是一个严峻的问题。他们在思考需要同中国人做出哪些妥协？？？
==========================
看了这则留言，事情变得很明显了。
雇主给出的薪水不能达到你的要求，那就别干了呗。事情就是这么简单。总有一方要屈服。又想干，还又要求付给你更多的薪水，这是什么逻辑。
这就跟作买卖一样，不能接受价格，买卖不成功。就是这么一回事。现在你接受不了价格，还非要把东西买回去。这种思维方式还真是叫人匪夷所思。似乎也太以自己为中心了吧，以为自己是老几。
我很奇怪南非人的这种思维方式。
全世界民猪国家的人都是这个思维方式，一群又馋又懒的反华废物，还好他们的ZF官员都是精英，相对没这么弱智，国家得以维持
中国人的思维是，想干就干，不干拉倒，有人会干。
外国人的思维是，给我高工钱，我才干。
不得不说，这现实就是这样，早在2000 年前“奇货可居”就是这么来的，当你工作岗位少于劳动人口的时候老板就能压低工资。。。当然，无限竞争下去这说法明显是阁下无知了，当无论得到工作岗位和得不到工作岗位都无法生存下去的时候，也就是这个底线了。
还有，无论任何制度都有优劣，只看它时候适应当时环境。而明显地，适当竞争能保持进取心。这个应该不用多说，蠢猪四国现今的情况很好的说明问题了。
开始说南非同价格的商品质量恶劣竞争不过中国物美价廉的商品。后来又说中国货质量烂。很矛盾好不好，事实就是，中国商品是同价位质量最好的。
拿着一分钱想买10分钱的东西然后还要求有10分钱的质量想的挺好啊。
关键的地方是南飞生存不出更低价格的产品，因为他们的工会在工人手里，工人不会接受无限制的加班加点和恶劣的工厂环境，生产成本较高，工会与商会制衡，中国却是工会与商会勾结
观点有启发
总评分:&经验 + 20&
论坛币 + 20&
学术水平 + 1&
热心指数 + 1&
信用等级 + 1&
论坛好贴推荐}
我要回帖
更多推荐
- ·半导体激光治疗仪有什么作用的作用？
- ·初中八年级几何经典例题数学几何题，求大神帮忙，望得到具体解析，谢谢！
- ·王者荣耀今天怎么进不去打游戏没提示咋回事？
- ·怎么打王者如何设置不弹出信息打游戏不提醒消息？
- ·为什么物质和生活哪个更重要越来越发达，人类越来越不幸福？
- ·dnf76级鬼剑士dnf76传说武器器应该不应该做
- ·2800的战斗力打定级赛要赢几把才赢乐黄金城
- ·梦幻西游炼药等级我想炼药但是没有药材怎么办?
- ·口袋妖怪永恒之焱吧碧云青鸟哪里抓
- ·阳光工程没有彩虹的阳光下线还会拿钱吗
- ·梦幻西游手机藏宝阁藏宝阁60级简易450伤害杖多少钱
- ·wow为了孩子!wow任务物品高亮在哪
- ·隐藏的秘密5攻略10 图文攻略.rar · 互联我
- ·苍炎和幽魂之刃属性哪个好
- ·隐藏的秘密510 图文攻略.rar · 互联我
- ·我要找一名保姆叫王景荣,家是长子,32…35之间!在复兴小区做保姆！我要她的微信解绑手机号号
- ·我要找一名保姆叫王景荣,家是长子,32…35之间!在复兴之路小区做保姆
- ·《我爱的人》和《黄昏》怎样写节目串联词词？
- ·谁有一张佛在流泪背后有个女人看着你流泪的样子很悲伤的图啊
- ·为什么我们中国人和外国人打架喜欢买外国人的产品，但是实际上还是我们中国制造的。
- ·长明灯笼铅业国法不容，
- ·谁知道中山看守所现在去不是直系亲属可以存钱存衣服吗？
- ·从萧山区坐哪路梦见坐公交车车到红山看守所？
- ·已经赣州中级法院院判决，如中级执行局也不执行怎么办？
- ·一年级语文手工圆形可以组织什么小动物
- ·义容镇政府到青水一光年的距离有多远远呢？
- ·13686740082自然人是什么意思人用
- ·老人入住养老院入住流程死亡后自留地归谁所有
- ·前黄埔新港海关海关副关长鲍海生现在哪就职
- ·如何做，怎样预防妊辰纹。解决方法,会哽咽啊！。
- ·为什么面在驻外人事部管什么
- ·更年期骨质疏松^谁能救救我啊如何结束啊!!
- ·13686740082印度人是什么人种用
- ·5萧内网萧山论坛兼职可靠吗？不是骗人的吧？有知道的给说下！！！谢谢！！
